this post was submitted on 02 Jul 2025
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Ukraine

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[–] supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz 6 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Definitely scary, but they have failed to launch an offensive now of any real momentum this spring, what will change in the medium term? Russia essentially demechanized its army by blasting through most of its armor. It is building up T90 tanks, but that is a longer term process.

What I think we will see are drone attacks meant to evoke mass media coverage without Russia being able to gather serious momentum in an organized armored offensive at least at a broad level.

[–] FundMECFSResearch@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

The javelins will be sorely missed. They were a bit of a silver bullet against those T90s

[–] supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz 2 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

long response

Yes, but so long as during this vulnerable period Russia can't decisively capitalize on Ukraine needing to find European and Global replacements for the immense amount of things the US military industrial complex provided, I think this will be better for Ukraine and perhaps the world at this point that other similarly highly effective anti-tank/armor/entrenched position MANPADs will have to be developed in conjunction with Ukraine. The fact that Russia hasn't achieved decisive momentum in their spring offensive already does not bode well for Russia being able to capitalize on this vulnerable period for Ukraine well enough for it to strategically shift the tide of the war.

Also, I am not a soldier, and I am not living in Ukraine but for what it is worth I would trade all the javelins for having the 155mm self propelled artillery and ammunition Ukraine now has, yes it is very very very difficult to kill a modernized T90 tank with 155mm artillery shells, you can do it especially with the accuracy and coordination emphasized by the Paladin derived fire control systems in use in multiple Ukranian artillery systems now (somehow some of them managing to work together? how that must be such a technical headache oh my), but it isn't easy.

However, and this is what people will always look past until they try it with their own tanks, sure you can advance the T90 tanks imperviously through even a fearsome artillery barrage, but what about the trucks carrying the spare parts for those tanks? What about the recovery vehicles for the ~30% of your tanks that will inveitably get stuck for the majority of the battle and need recovery while under non-lethal but sustained gunfire? The accompanying fleet of oil trucks for those tanks? What about the spotting crews and scout vehicles accompanying the tanks so they aren't blind? What about the infantry support? The mechanized infantry in their apcs screening the armor and identifying and removing road blocks for the tanks? What about the staging of materials needed requiring at least a freight train's worth of cargo to be hauled into the region? Are those all impervious to a 155mm shell?

What happens when the lead tanks loses a tread on a narrow road mined on either side and the whole column comes to a stop because there is no space to turn around? Sure the armor on the tank is rated thick enough to be impervious to all but highly lethal and specialized antitank artillery rounds, but what about the cameras, smokescreen launchers, sensors, communication, navigation, electronics warfare and jamming equipment everywhere all over the exposed exterior of that tank? Is all that equipment impervious to a 155mm artillery shell? Ok sure maybe all of it is, but what if you just rattle the whole thing violently OVER and OVER again with sustained apocalyptic 155mm artillery fire? Is all of that stuff realllllyyy gonna keep working and is the crew inside reallllllly going to stay calm and collected enough to effectively carry out their mission? No engineer can gurantee anything but an inert metal shell will survive that extreme level of artillery barrage for any length of time and if it does it is going to be extremely vulnerable to other types of direct fire AT weapons in the wake of it.

Sure the javelins will be missed, but the thing about US derived 155mm artillery systems is, they don't tend to miss. Look up the stats and anecdotes on how precisely 155mm US artillery systems like the M109 Paladin can place a 155mm artillery shell and you start to realize that the concept of a secure emplacement becomes a very problematic one to answer. War necessarily becomes mobile and this places a tactically inept but numerically superior foe at a serious disadvantage if they try to manuever the same way they did when their opponent did not have the same artillery capacity.

The thing that needs to be understood about having on-call, precise 155mm artillery support distributed and generally available on the front is that everything is just a matter of time. No matter what the enemy does, how advantageous of a position they take on you, if you still have operational 155mm artillery on call all you need to know is where the enemy has decided to stop for 5 minutes and it is game over for them. Even if they are in heavy armor they will be so rattled, cut off from nearby infantry fleeing the artillery and bogged down from minor equipment failures that their intiatitive will be too seriously compromised to successfully complete the armored assault.

On the otherhand the difference between having on-call 155mm artillery support and on-call rocket artillery support is that you already used up your artillery batteries ammunition on critical targets two days ago and while their impact/threat is the only reason your forces are still in the fight, your 155mm artillery has been doing fire missions nearly non-stop the whole time and are still firing at all the targets you can give them (at one point they resorted to floating an artillery cannon down a river just to keep shooting at the enemy I have heard? That is the kind of obsessive work ethic artillery cannons have).

A general might look at the situation and say "more javelins, more rocket artillery!" but the logistics and artillery experts will rightfully point out "but for the equivalent cost in materials, manpower and time we could supply more 155mm shells than neither you nor the enemy can comprehend. Every single unit on the battlefield will have X amount of 155mm shells assigned personally to them that they can call down out of the sky if they so wish. How many would be enough to convince you to trade your javelin launcher in? 10? 20? 30? 100? 500? Wait how fast can you even reload your javelin? Okay so what I am offering you is 5 of these a minute and guess what you don't even have to carry them with you to the battlefield..".....

https://militarnyi.com/en/news/ukraine-completed-tests-of-ukrainian-made-155-mm-shells/

Do you know what it is like when even a single basic HE 155mm shell lands quite close to you unexpectedly? I don't and I don't ever want to find out. Look at that persons hand and think about the fact that a cannon is launching that 10s of kms through the sky all the way to where a little itty bitty fpv drone hovering nearby indicated. Not just once in a fancy show of masculine technological military dominace, but with a loud, easy simplicity, angle.. inclination... charge number OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER again...

This was an obsessive info dump/weird rant.. but I do mean this seriously, it is clear that 155mm artillery for Ukraine must be making a massive difference for the infantry and warfighters on the frontline in Ukraine. The kind of ridiculous odds and incredibly intense assaults a small group of people fighting for their lives can survive with well trained and well coordinated 155mm support is absurd. It saves lives and it provies a meaningful psychological difference to the people risking their lives against the brunt of the Russian war machine to know they have consistent fire support like that. From a general's standpoint you also don't need "meat shields" to screen your high value high impact weapons when you have thorough 155mm artillery support because extremely threatening enemy movements can be restricted with artillery fire rather than waves of WW1 style infantry rushes or suicidal armored vehicle pushes into weapons that can easily defeat their armor. This isn't to say that without artillery, generals will indiscriminately waste human lives, but rather that the most intense flashpoints of battles without artillery support become much more hellish, it is counter intuitive but it is brutally true. Things literally become a melee. A 155mm barrage creates that melee with just artillery shells and fools who think they can coexist with the artillery shells and continue their assault.

Further, while drones can absolutely deliver these types of munitions one has to also consider the pyschological trauma that is being endured by the soldiers operating those drones. I will not speak for them, but all I can say is I have no desire to watch the graphic FPV videos. That isn't a judgement, it is a privilege that I don't have to experience those things first hand and my point is that some people don't have that privilege and artillery systems like the ones I am going on about provide a real mental health capacity to reduce the intense trauma that must come from killing person after person with a flying machine that you originally got into flying because of the fun creative possibilities you saw, not necessarily the raw violent potential it unlocked. That kind of killing can be reserved for more limited and decisive contexts instead of as a general mass assault on the minds of soldiers on both sides...

No, this is a critical shift in the war on many levels for Ukraine even with the US deflating like a toxic waste facility melting down into its own radioactive waste.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=--JmEF446fE&vl=en