this post was submitted on 04 Jul 2025
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TenForward: Where Every Vulcan Knows Your Name
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Going off on a tangent here, I dislike it when people use that phrase "Jesus Christ!" like that. I get that religion has caused much of the evil in this world... (arguably less so than capitalism but... whatever!:-P), though that doesn't (shouldn't) matter. It demeans us to sink to that level, whatever our own personal thoughts are on the matter, and regardless of the particular target. / end of my Ted Talk here
And like, isn't that the meaning of Rule 1, where generally "othering" a group is a strong no-no (the chief one in fact, hence it appearing first)? Granted that religion is a choice unlike e.g. race or sexual preference, but even so? Jesus himself was an extremely chill dude - "Love Thy Neighbor" and all of that - so it's not his fault that after his death people later abuse his name to gain personal power, using it to do things like diddle children, which is vehemently NOT what "love thy neighbor" meant there!?!?!?!
Star Trek shows us a world where we can rise above all that:-). A famous person semi-recently said: "when they go low, we go high".
I have no love for religion when it has killed people in my community and when it has been used to spit hate in my face, as a gay man, on a constant basis throughout my life. I am certainly not going to be respecting one of their 10 Commandments in not taking the lords name in vain when they don't respect the commandments in loving thy neighbor. I do not respect a religion that does not respect me. It is as simple as that. This is a two way street and the oppressed and scapegoated minority is definitely not the one who should make the first move. Especially when "Do not take the lords name in vain" could be applied to a trillion other things, such as using the Lords name to justify support for a party of hateful bigots that stand antithetical to everything the bible claims Jesus to be. Wanna make clear, I'm talking about religion as a whole there and not specifically religious people. It's just hard to reconcile as a gay guy.
I wrote Rule 1, it doesn't really apply here because Jesus Christ is a generalized swear. It's not used as an anti-Christian epithet. It's not used as a form of hate speech in regards to the religion or the people who use it. It's an expression of extreme surprise. It wasn't used in regards to Christians or in specific to them. Didn't attack them, didn't question them, didn't refer to them. I said two words that have been used in this capacity for at least 200 years.
Lastly, the title is just quoting a movie. "Jesus Christ, it's Jason Bourne." And that's one of the primary reasons why I definitely don't care about using the phrase. There aren't really any protections for it in media outside of normal swearing. It's been adopted into the main stream as an expression of frustration. Religion has little to do with it anymore.
Edit: Can you please stop downvoting them?
It certainly has done all that you said are more... religious fascists even killed Jesus himself, then others turned around to use him as a martyr for their own cause. Jesus the idea can be a bit like Santa Claus - it can mean whatever the fuck you want it to, especially if you can gain something (profits, power, gratification, etc.) as a result?
Regardless, I like how welcoming this community is. We can do yet still more though, to avoid "othering" half the people on planet earth? (Muslims also consider Jesus as one of the Holy Prophets, and similarly to Christianity makes up 1/4th-1/3rd of all people; Hindi is much more of a stretch but they too incorporate Jesus Christ into the pantheon of various "gods" and "avatars" and the like...; and too there are Mormons, who consider themselves Christians even while mainstream Christians do not in return, and on and on it goes - there really are a lot of people who at least claim to follow what Jesus says!)
Btw - you will enjoy this one, I think, even though it is not all that relevant to this discussion imho - that isn't what taking the lord's name in vain means. Mostly, as far as I've heard, that is "claiming his name" (calling yourself by a form of it?) yet denying all the great responsibility that comes with it. i.e., it is the very self-professed Christians who in the act of demeaning you ("treat others as you would wish to be treated in return"?), were the ones performing the very act of "taking HIS name", but "in vain". It's just a fucking swear man, not a commandment-breaker, don't sweat it:-).
That said, when I was growing up, the F-bomb (YOU KNOW WHICH ONE) was a generalized swear. It was also a short-form word for a cigarette? And on top of that, partially reclaimed by some within the target community, much as the N-word. Do you see how none of that matters? I had to expend SO MUCH effort to throw away my false religious roots (Will & Grace on TV helped so much with that:-P ngl I could not stand to watch it especially when 2 men kissed - I FORCED myself to watch, over and over again, to get past the idea that it was "not normal" or "unacceptable" or "morally wrong"). So please believe me when I say: that it made up a general swear for so long is nowhere near an excuse. Whatever THEY do is on them, while what WE do is on US. Yes, fuck religious Christo-fascists who instead of lifting a finger to help someone go extremely out of their way to heap heavy burdens upon other people (btw those are Jesus' very own words - in Matthew 23:4)... but regardless of the past, who have we decided to be, here, in this place, at this time?
If it's a direct quote from a movie... that actually might be a good counter-argument. Except wait a minute, if I used that argument in order to say the F-bomb word, or the N-word, would you (or the current mods I guess) allow me to get away with that then? Whether you/they did or did not, you should not, is what I am saying. Because it "others" people. See also my reply to the other comment below my prior reply.
Jesus’ name is not on the same level as a slur. The two cannot be compared this way. I cannot take this comment seriously with that comparison. I’d write something longer than this but I just woke up. In short: wtf man.
Not Christian.
I am not stopping my usage of that phrase. Ever. I'll limit it around people who are uncomfortable by it, but I'm not going to stop using it because I do not respect a religion that does not respect me. I refuse to play by rules that others do not. I refuse to limit myself based off of the whims of a few when the whims of those few killed my people for years.
Christians are not an oppressed minority. They do not get special treatment and I am honestly nearing 'enraged' territory because my entire life I've been told to fit into the mold of Christians. Whether it's how I talk, how I act, the people I love... it doesn't matter. And now you're telling me that I can't say an extremely common phrase that is used by Christians because it might upset them? No. Simply no. The entire religion upsets me by its simple existence and insistence that I am not a real person or that I am less of one.
That's the thing I really need to hammer home to you. Christians are everywhere. Y'all get say in everything, including how children are raised. What stores are open when. What things are taught in school. What politicial motivation a candidate has. Frankly, you have too much power and you have too much say. I have had to curtail so much in my life or suffer the hatred and ostricazation of Christians that I am simply not going to bow and curtail to Christians in my language. If you don't like it, tough. I don't like your entire religion and the fact that it has killed so many of people, driven them to suicide, stunted children, gotten them molested, the list goes on and on and on and on and on and on and I'm only talking about shit that I personally have had to deal with from either personal experiences with creepy as fuck priests, creepy Christians, heavy parents that shamed my gay friends into taking their own lives, etc.
You're not changing my opinion. Ever. Christians do not deserve special treatment when the entire institution refuses to give it to other people.
And trying to compare "Jesus Christ" to "Fag" had me actively say outloud "ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME" so I'm going to need to go calm down now. One of those is a phrase that is used in media. The other is a word that was yelled in my face when someone stabbed me.
They do not fucking equate. When was the last time Christians were rounded up and summarily beaten to death in a dark alley while having Jesus Christ yelled in their face? When was the last time one was strung up to a fence and beaten then left exposed to the elements after having that yelled in their face? When was the last time that Christians were bullied walking down the streets holding hands with someone else having that yelled in their face? When was the last time that Christians had fear of telling other people they were Christians because they'd lose their jobs, their families, their friends, their homes? I am actually shaking with rage.
You are great at community building. You have built a FANTASTIC place here. In all of our conversation, I hope I haven't come across TOO awfully adversarial here? I felt like I was sharing my own, differing perspective, and naively even thinking in my head that I was HELPING by pointing this out... but of course my own perspective is not the only one that matters - any communication involves both a sending and a receiving, and I can only imagine your side of it, inside of my head.
It sounds like you are saying that "they deserve it". My point: so what? Talking that way does not demean them, it only conveys your own anger, directed at them. Some people were outright killed, so I understand that... although even so, painting an entire religion by the actions of a few is dicey.
Also, you really disliked "the old place" (I mean the one on StarTrek.website, not Reddit), because of the unwritten rules that were selectively enforced (and out of that pain was birthed this new one, which is much more welcoming, I agree and I love it!!!). This is why I am such a fan of transparency - and if it is okay to make fun of Christians, then put that in the sidebar, but if not then... why is that okay, not the making fun of them part but the part about doing it but not being transparent about that?
To clarify: I am not trying to tell you what to do in any way, shape or form? I am merely sharing with you my perspective, in case it helps illuminate your own thinking. If that causes stress in your brain, then there may be a reason for that, and you may be happier to spend time untangling the reason why, to lead a more Zen lifestyle where such cares no longer intrude upon your thoughts and weigh you down? But if not, then those defenses are likely in place for a reason, and moreover perhaps on some other day you could have but maybe you cannot handle that right now, especially with... (waves hands) all of this going on in the USA right now? I get that, I don't know how to convey just how MUCH I DO get that!
But fwiw, you are not correct imho. It doesn't matter if they deserve it. It doesn't matter if they are the minority or majority. Nobody is asking for "special treatment", I was pointing out the differential treatment that selectively they seem to be getting - this is a safe space for people of all walks of life, except for some reason that one, that "other" one that you do not care for, because they hurt you. FUCK THEM for that btw, I am angry on your behalf! Though it does - should - not matter.
Do as you please, of course! I just thought I would open my big mouth and insert my thoughts where I was not invited:-P. I did think it could help... but how you choose to receive all of this is up to you. And I DO GET IT - they messed with you, and it is now hard to forgive. But since you asked...? No, you "can't" say that extremely common phrase, and also have this remain a safe and open and welcoming space to the people that you are denigrating by doing so. That is not me, not my "perspective", that is just how words work. Hurting them in return... will not bring you peace, nor engender a welcoming environment (I mean here retaining the one that already exists). That's just my two cents, unasked-for as it was. I am sorry for your pain, I truly am, and I hope that one day you heal from it and move on past the bigots. (If it helps, many Christians think that nobody is a real person - they are super judgemental of EVERYONE, think "my child intensifies" vibes, but that is just how they choose to live, it has nothing whatsoever to do with you. I hope you can be free of that one day.)
As for what stores are open when, what things are taught in school, that is rather "democracy", not "Christianity". Democracy has real problems, especially when people choose to remain uneducated. Christianity has a real problem too, in encouraging people to trust authority structures rather than think through issues on their own. Thus, the issue is not caused by Christianity, but the latter does exaggerate the issue and make the existing way worse. Even so, again, that is on them, while what we do is on us.
Christians are killed all the time, but anyway this seems neither the time nor the place to get too deep into all of that - but if it helps, yes Christians are killed, not so much in the USA obviously. Hatred and bigotry exists everywhere in the world, it is part of our human nature, it just takes different forms in different local areas, each according to whatever excuses the people currently in power there try to use to weild their authority over others. Highly ironically, Jesus himself is a perfect example: for daring to say that the religious zealots of the day should actually bother to help people instead of merely claiming to do so while actually doing the opposite. But not recently, not in the USA, not locally here and now... although also not never, anywhere either. I have been consistently trying to argue that abuse of power is wrong, regardless of the target, or the reason.
I hope that helps explain what I was trying to convey. If you have more questions then I am happy to continue, but if this is merely causing you pain then perhaps I am not the right person to help you heal and see this point here, and we can stop? I want to be sensitive to your needs so I will simply trust your judgement here: just do not reply, or if you want the last word then as part of it tell me plainly that you want to stop, and I will drop it. Thank you for engaging with me so far - yes I agree that your pain is much greater than what I was saying you were feeding forward out to the world, so in that narrow aspect you are correct, I just hoped to help you see beyond that to what it might be like to leave all that behind us; though I must fully acknowledge my own limitations in that regard - I am most often not understood, and I take ownership of my lack of ability to communicate my thoughts. Conversely, I felt like it was not so "friendly" of me to remain silent either though, if I saw something that bothered me? So I offered, in friendliness, these thoughts. I apologize that it caused you pain. Yeah, fuck those that caused that originally... and I hope that you find a way to heal. I also hope that you stop feeding forward those divisive modes of thought, that were so forcibly pushed onto you, again at a much higher degree of severity that you now push out to "others", but fwiw I do see that you need to heal first before you can do so. I hope you get there, I really do!:-D
You realize, of course, that you’re complaining about a use of language that is in fact most commonly used by Christian’s?
Hrm I did not know that but then all the more reason not to do it?
"Jesus Fucking Christ!" - just think about it for a moment, how is that "okay"? Perhaps when they do it one could arguably... no I can't see it even then. But I will think about it some more.