this post was submitted on 18 Jun 2025
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No Stupid Questions

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I think progressives never thought about this because we banked on immigration and demographic change allowing us to win culturally and electorally but the issue is immigrants tend to be overwhelmingly male, that is how Trump won actually he won over a lot of Hispanic,Black,Asian and indigenous men who feel humiliated by a new culture, economy and world.

So what can we do rhetorically and policy wise to win more young men over ?

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[–] chunes@lemmy.world 18 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Maybe stop hating their guts..

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[–] Today@lemmy.world 26 points 4 days ago (3 children)

As a mom of men, it has always concerned me that, while we were supporting our girls, we left our boys to flounder a bit. We spent so much time telling girls that they could do anything and they could be 'just as good as the boys' and talking to women about glass ceilings and 'don't let the man keep you down.' What did we tell our boys or rather what did they hear?

To your point, I think that there is a fundamental issue with how we talk about success and failure. We effectively target white straight cis men setting them up so that they can never really succeed. As the majority, at least in terms of social and political power, we recognize that they have significant privilege in our culture. We weaponize that privilege such that all successes are external (the system is pushing them up) and all failures are internal (must be something wrong with them if they can fail despite having all of those advantages). Everyone else, to varying degrees depending on how much social and political power we perceive them to have, has the opposite logic applied to them. We say that their success is personal and special because they do it in spite of the system working against them and we blame their failures on the system.

There is of course legitimacy to that reasoning. There are many roadblocks that, especially visible, minorities face that white straight cis men do not. That doesn't make this mindset not problematic though. The biggest issue with it is that we apply the general to the individual. Does a rural white kid whose parents both work retail have more privilege than Jaden Smith just because of his skin color? That's of course an extreme example but the point is that the totality of a person's circumstances is more than just how their biology is perceived by the culture. Privilege does make success easier as compared to people in otherwise similar circumstances but it certainly doesn't guarantee success or mean that successes don't have to be worked for.

[–] AmidFuror@fedia.io 12 points 4 days ago

I was at a college graduation last month, and at least 90% of the awards announced from the podium (significant accomplishments for a graduating class of hundreds) were given to women. The graduating class itself is probably 55% women or so. Women of course still face many barriers, but men are falling behind at some levels.

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[–] pineapplelover@lemm.ee 6 points 3 days ago (3 children)

Idk how do you "sell" being a decent fucking person?

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[–] That_Devil_Girl@lemmy.ml 24 points 4 days ago (4 children)

Male stereotypes have to be culturally broken first. Men are being taught that showing any emotions other than anger and hate is effeminate. They're being taught that empathy is weakness, that education is stupidity, that freedom is slavery.

Everything that makes men human is being stripped away, leaving a husk of burning hate awaiting marching orders. They need to reconnect to humanity.

[–] IloveyouMF@lemmy.world 22 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I am going to be honest, I think women need to be a a part of this. We are used to being right in regards to gender conflict because usually we are but one thing I agree with men on is that every woman says they want men to share their feelings more but many women lose respect for a man they see as weak.

Bell Hooks talks a lot about this so you can go read her.

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[–] Tedesche@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Maybe stop labeling them the “enemy” with posts like these?

[–] Madzielle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 3 days ago

Where did it call them "the enemy"?

It didn't, it's asking how we can reach them and help support them, no?

[–] StarlightDust@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 4 days ago (14 children)

Christ - some of these replies are exactly what a lot of women talk about when we say that Lemmy has a misogyny problem.

Blokes really don't recognize how much harder shit actually is for women, overall. It would be lovely to just sit on a bench for 5 mins without a stranger coming to chat me up, or if people would stop crediting men for my work when they don't even ask for it.

[–] scintilla@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 2 days ago

Some things of the comments literally boil down to "just let the patriarchy continue and let the men keep pushing women out of certain fields"

I don't see how that is actually progressive. It has similar vibes to when after the election a whole bunch of people started saying to just throw trans people under the bus and basically run a republican for the next one.

when we say that Lemmy has a misogyny problem.

Yeah, it's really disheartening that young men have decided to blame women for all their woes. I'm in my late thirties and it really seems like a reversal to me, instead of blaming late stage capitalism for disenfranchising their demographic they are somehow are blaming women.

Even if we hypothetically accept that "there is an attack on masculinity" who's doing it? The vast majority of politicians are men, the vast majority of CEO are men, the vast majority of judges, lawyers, prosecutors...... The list goes on and on. In nearly any hierarchical system of power in the world, men are in charge. So from whom is our masculinity really being attacked?

Gonna catch the down votes for this, but imo because our economic system has already exploited all other demographics, young white men are being systemically disenfranchised for the first time and are not dealing with it very well. Welcome to the club fellas, POC and especially women have been here the whole time!

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[–] bent@lemm.ee 5 points 3 days ago

You need to make it fun and engaging for them. That is what the far right is doining. You and I might find it reprehensible, but they het som much traction bu having fun and giving young men a purpose and the feeling that they are doing something to netter themselves and their commuity.

How you go about that I dont know. In my local area we are focusing on having fun partiets and going out together as a group instead of just being political nerds in our own little grottos. Som far it seems to be working.

Tl;dr: Have fun visibly and invite them to join you. It takes forever, but at least you have fun while doing it.

[–] drmoose@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Young adults needs stronger world frameworks that don't feel forced on them.

IMO that's a virtue system!

I've been a Stoic for over 20 years now and managed to convert dozens of people to progressive thought just by discussing virtues that are inherit to human nature (justice, courage, wisdom, temperance). People like abstract virtues because they're easy to incorporate to their personal world models with very little friction and friction is the real thought killer.

Most people are truth seeking but can be very slow learners and some really rebel against strong friction so there's a need for more abstract approaches like - using "colorblind" instead of arguing race, using "cosmopolitan" when argueing geopolitics, using "secular" when arguing religion etc etc. Every other argument can follow afterwards.

This is the way.

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[–] Today@lemmy.world 18 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I don't know. How do you teach empathy?

[–] charade_you_are@sh.itjust.works 17 points 4 days ago (9 children)

You got to beat it into people

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[–] CmdrShepard49@sh.itjust.works 13 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

I think instead of focusing on how to sell this product, we focus on the product itself because it's impossible to sell something that Democrats keep pulling off the shelf as "defective." Like any other item that people buy, committing to something only to have the "company" do a 180 and stop supporting it immediately after your "purchase" is just going to drive people away.

Most Democrats only seem interested in pushing progressive policies right up until they get elected and then it's always "not the right time" after the election.

Edit: also the product would sell itself if they actually implemented them and improved people's lives. It's kind of hard to deny things that exist right in front of your face, but we never seem able to get to that point because corporations and genocidal "allies" always take precedence over the American people regardless of which of these two parties hold office.

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