Idk man. If you’re a child, a unhoused, or a otherwise a person without the economic means to leave because your ancestors were settlers and you just so happened to be born in the colonized land, I’d consider you a civilian. I think your view is too black and white.

Screw you if you’re a deliberate Zionist benefiting from genocide though.

[–] IttihadChe@lemmy.ml 6 points 3 days ago

Israelis aren't walled in and prevented from leaving like Palestinians are in Gaza.

Israelis have no practical excuse to continue their occupation, especially when everyone is forced to serve in the IDF to actively aid the occupation rather than just passively.

[–] Allero@lemmy.today 8 points 3 days ago (2 children)

As long as they are not on active duty, they shouldn't be targets. And if they are forced to serve, they should still only be killed if they are an active threat. Normally, they should first be offered to surrender.

Hope you're acting ironic and do not actually call to genocide all Jews in Israel.

[–] Tiger666@lemmy.ca 5 points 3 days ago (1 children)

No, but all Israelis that are zionists maybe.

Zionists are not Jewish people, they are actually against Judaism.

I believe it's the Talmud that says Israel cannot exist until the messiah returns. This is why you have many religious Jews in the US against the state of Israel.

Zionists are the one and only antisemites.

[–] Allero@lemmy.today -1 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Zionists are mostly Jews, but Jews are mostly not Zionists.

But yes, according to Talmud, Israel shouldn't exist.

[–] IttihadChe@lemmy.ml 3 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

There are more Christian Zionists than there are Jews in total.

"Zionists are mostly Jews" is an objectively false statement.

Maybe specifically in Israel the statement could be seen as true, but that's only because Israel is a jewish settler ethnostate, so most of almost any grouping would be a majority Jews.

[–] Tiger666@lemmy.ca 0 points 3 days ago

Zionist are not jews. They might say they are but the are against Judaism just like southern Christians are not Christians.

[–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Hope you're acting ironic by saying that you can commit a genocide, put your gun over the fireplace you murdered a family to steal, and suddenly not be a valid target.

It doesn't matter if you put your gun down as a settler colonizer. You're still actively engaging in the genocide. You are still a valid target.

And the objective of any just war is to expel you.

Normally, they should first be offered to surrender.

Get on a plane and go home. No one's stopping you. That's your opportunity.

[–] Allero@lemmy.today 0 points 2 days ago (1 children)

How are you engaging in genocide if you do not take part in the war? And especially if you denounce the actions of your government? Is being born in Israel enough to be seen as a genocidal maniac?

I swear this "settler" discourse is gonna drive me crazy at some point.

[–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 0 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago) (1 children)

How can you call me a robber just because I accepted all of these stolen goods that were stolen specifically for me to have?

Shut the fuck up holy god

Good. Go crazy. Shut the fuck up.

Is being born in Israel enough to be seen as a genocidal maniac?

If you join the IDF yes it fucking is. And why are you acting like this is something that happened at the dawn of history? These are not people who were born there. These are people who settled there because they were told they could murder people and steal their homes. Stop making ahistoric excuses for fucking fascists, you fucking fascist piece of shit.

[–] Allero@lemmy.today 1 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

In no way to be a snob, but could we tone it down? After all, we're mostly on the same page on that the state of Israel is committing war crimes, we only differ in who we blame for it.

Back to the substance:

First, Israel as an independent state exists since 1948, so yes, the absolute majority of people living in modern day Israel were born there; they are not the same people who came to displace Palestinians all those decades ago.

Second, I did not talk about IDF soldiers. Those who voluntarily joined Israeli armed forces do take part in an act of evil, and deserve to be judged. I do not support the same notion in respect to Israeli civilians and those on mandatory service.

Third, in your robber hypothetical, where are the Israeli civilians? Do they have to renounce their citizenship and go live abroad not to receive "stolen goods"? Someone who is opposed to the war taking place are not "robbers" here.

[–] Eatspancakes84@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago

I don’t want to talk ethics, but as a rule of thumb, winning a war is easier if you take out strategic targets than if you target civilians. Targeting civilians is what you do if your weapons aren’t precise enough to target tanks/planes etc.