this post was submitted on 11 Jul 2025
451 points (98.3% liked)
196
5641 readers
393 users here now
Be sure to follow the rule before you head out.
Rule: You must post before you leave.
Other rules
Behavior rules:
- No bigotry (transphobia, racism, etc…)
- No genocide denial
- No support for authoritarian behaviour (incl. Tankies)
- No namecalling
- Accounts from lemmygrad.ml, threads.net, or hexbear.net are held to higher standards
- Other things seen as cleary bad
Posting rules:
- No AI generated content (DALL-E etc…)
- No advertisements
- No gore / violence
- Mutual aid posts are not allowed
NSFW: NSFW content is permitted but it must be tagged and have content warnings. Anything that doesn't adhere to this will be removed. Content warnings should be added like: [penis], [explicit description of sex]. Non-sexualized breasts of any gender are not considered inappropriate and therefore do not need to be blurred/tagged.
Also, when sharing art (comics etc.) please credit the creators.
If you have any questions, feel free to contact us on our matrix channel or email.
Other 196's:
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Zionism is the use of the right to self determination of the Jewish people in their ancestral homeland, currently as the state of Israel. If you deny the Jewish people the right to self determination, but support it for others, then that’s antisemitic of course.
You can criticize Israel’s current actions in the war in Gaza. Many Israelis do that all the time and have since early in the war. Most of those protesting in Israel against the Netanyahu government and for an end to the war wave Israeli flags and identify as Zionists themselves.
In practice, when people say they criticize Zionism, what they often actually want is for Israel to be destroyed. The state that is a home to and protects half of the Jews. The implications of that ends up pretty terribly for Jews. If you want half the world‘s Jews to be ethnically cleansed („go back to Poland“), of course that’s antisemitic.
Well this is where you and I break away and disagree then.
One, the founder of Zionism Theodore Herzl was very very clear what this was about. Its explicitly a settler colonial state exactly the same way the US or South Africa are.
Two, you don't need your own country to have self-determination otherwise immigrants would not have come to the US seeking self-determination. As long as you were free to pursue whatever you want you have access to self-determination. A state is not necessary. Preferably Israel would be turned into a multicultural secular State instead of a Jewish Supremacy state. Any attempt to label Jewish people as in danger from this would be racist since the government would be secular.
Three, the Palestinians have every right same as the Jewish people and more so since they had a continuous presence in the land to also live there with self-determination.
Four, surveys overwhelmingly in Israel show a couple of things. Firstly they do show that Netanyahu is fairly unpopular for his handling of the hostage crisis. Overwhelmingly Israelis are fine with the actions of the IOF. Most recent polls show 80% want more aggressive action against Gaza. The governments line on comparing Palestinians to "Amalek" and the agreeance of the majority of the population Israel show that the genocidal rhetoric is not what's unpopular with Netanyahu
Five, Israel has got to be one of the most racist places that I currently know about. It's lovely watching all the videos in Flag Day where all of these lovely Jewish families were chanting "death to Arabs" in Hebrew which leads into one of the anti-Zionist Jewish points that Zionism is inherently racist since it specifically calls for a race of Jews.
If you want to commiserate with these points go to Reddit. Most on Lemmy are very aware of the history of Zionism, Israel, and Palestine.
Edit:
I can Source every single one of these claims. Let me know if you want them.
It’s not like the Jews had a choice. They fled from persecution and Israel was the only place most of them could go to survive. It’s a state founded by refugees fleeing oppression, persecution, and genocide. That makes it fundamentally different from other settler countries like Australia, the USA, Canada, all Latin American countries, and many more.
Most Israeli Jews didn’t even come there themselves, they were born in the land and have no other home.
Yes, Palestinians also have a right to self determination. Two state solution is the best option for that. Sadly they refused several of the good offers they got, especially around the turn of the millennium.
Of course there are racist and hateful Israelis as well. The overall society has understandably hardened their stance towards Palestinians since October 7th.
You could say that about any ethnic nationalist movement.
Similar chants are common in the other direction as well.
A hundred years of conflict have taken their toll.
This is false, you can watch a very well sourced video here the sources are pinned at at the top of the videos comment section if you want reading material.
Listen to this Saudi diplomat who was a witness to many negotiations and the behavior of Palestinian leadership over the decades. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XTSrlONiDU&t=650s
Your linked video is so blatantly dishonest. Just one example: at 4:22 it complains that Palestine would have gotten lots of infertile land, completely disregarding the Negev.
The sources listed are a long list of books without any pages indicated. Lots of them with a strong pro palestine bias that distort history.
https://x.com/JalalAK_jojo/status/1946806553115263349
Most tolerant people ever. Israelis definitely aren't blood thristy or anything