this post was submitted on 22 Oct 2025
185 points (98.9% liked)

politics

26198 readers
2503 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ca/post/53819509

There are certain words you don’t want to hear in a medical checkup or in an investment bank’s recession outlook: “stable but elevated.” It’s a phrase that could refer to blood pressure, even risk of a heart attack, a favorite metaphor of hedge fund legend Ray Dalio, or in UBS’s evaluation, risk of a recession.

The bank found that from May through July, the “hard data” from the U.S. economy has shown an elevated risk level, standing at a probability of 93% most recently. This sits at “historically worrying levels,” UBS says, given this signal’s track record of identifying turning points using data from the National Bureau of Economic Research.

The bank notes other classic warning signs of an impending recession from the data, such as the inverted yield curve, which it notes is 23% inverted, steady in recent months but up sharply since the start of 2025. Based on building stress in credit markets, it finds the credit metrics-based recession probability has risen to 41%, roughly doubling since January.

Fortune’s reporting throughout 2025 has outlined mounting warning signs the U.S. is headed toward a recession, echoing and expanding on the UBS research note’s findings. But when UBS zooms in to the hard data, it finds that while most metrics are turning negative, it’s more in a “mile wide, inch deep” kind of “malaise.” None of the hard series of data is showing “signs of rapid unraveling,” according to the team led by Pierre Lafourcade, resulting in an overall bill of health: “Soggy, soft, weak, yes, but not collapsing.” Key findings

The UBS analysis of “hard data” reflects the bank’s own proprietary factor model, which relies on objective, non-survey-based economic indicators such as personal income, consumption, industrial production, and employment data. It filters out sentiment surveys, purchasing manager indexes (PMIs), and financial market signals.

After a brief recovery at the end of 2024, the hard data signal tipped decisively back into negative territory starting in February 2025. The sideways movement since May suggests sustained weakness rather than any new acceleration downward. According to the note, none of the major hard economic series were showing the kind of sharp, downside deviation (such as more than one standard deviation below trend) typically seen directly ahead of past recessions.

The key message is that the U.S. economy, by these hard data measures, is locked in a prolonged phase of stagnation or slow contraction, warranting caution even as outright collapse has not yet materialized. This aligns with other analysts’ warnings that even if a recession doesn’t materialize, the economy is headed for a bout of 1970s-style “stagflation,” a combination of a stagnating economy and rising inflation. For similar reasons, UBS is actually not forecasting a recession despite this 93% probability in the hard data. Aggregate recession risk

Despite the elevated risk, UBS’s economics team is not formally forecasting a recession, but rather expects “soggy growth” followed by improvement in 2026. The bank notes its U.S. Economics team has recently warned about “stall speed” in the economy, especially after the July jobs report revealed very low employment growth, and that call now seems “roughly consistent with the roughly 50-50 interpretation combining the credit data, yield curve, and leading hard data indicators.”

UBS averaged the hard data together with inverted yield curve and credit markets to produce an aggregate recession probability of 52% for July, up 15 percentage points since January and at levels historically associated with NBER-designated recessions. The bank’s recession tracker, therefore, points to a precarious balance for the U.S. economy—much weaker than a soft landing, but not yet collapsing—leaving policymakers and market watchers on alert as 2025 progresses. The other recession calls

Mark Zandi, chief economist for Moody’s Analytics, warned in early August the U.S. was on the precipice of a recession, citing much of the same hard data as UBS. Zandi argued the major revisions downward in the July report recalled earlier inflection points before recessions, when he sees revisions as much likelier due to swings in economic activity.

Zandi’s remarks followed a similar warning from JPMorgan, which said it has “consistently emphasized that a slide in labor demand of this magnitude is a recession warning signal…In episodes when labor demand slides with a growth downshift, it is often a precursor to retrenchment.”

In the weeks since, Zandi has voiced concerns over the coming winter of 2025/2026 as the time of greatest vulnerability, putting the odds of a recession at 50-50. Within a few days, Zandi argued states accounting for almost one-third of GDP were either in recession already or at risk of it. By his calculations, only one-third of the economy was expanding as of late August.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] chosensilence@pawb.social 43 points 6 days ago (11 children)

i’m honestly shocked we haven’t been in a recession for some time. my gut reaction tells me this is politically motivated to not say how bad it truly is.. but i’m not sure. probably not but it feels off as an American experiencing life here.

[–] orclev@lemmy.world 26 points 6 days ago (1 children)

It's because of how bifurcated the American economy (and society) has become. The absolutely gargantuan wealth inequality leads to a situation that for the majority of Americans they've been experiencing a recession for years at this point if not decades, while for the wealthy things are going great. The US economy is literally being propped up by the continued funneling of wealth from the poor to the rich. The problem is the poor are rapidly approaching the point where they have no more wealth to steal. The middle class is almost entirely drained, and even some of the lower end of the upper class is starting to feel squeezed. It's not sustainable and something is going to give one way or another. The economy can't continue to function when over half the population can no longer afford basic necessities.

They probably could have kept the plates spinning for another decade at least, but then a moron got put in charge of everything and started replacing people who were greedy and corrupt with people that were greedy, corrupt, and barely smart enough to remember how to breath. This recent shutdown in particular is very much going to force the issue as all the people reliant on SNAPP and Medicaid (or is it Medicare, I can never remember which is which) are going to find themselves unable to meet their basic human needs from their meager salaries (if they're lucky enough to be employed). Unfortunately I wouldn't be surprised to see an increase in theft and rioting if this doesn't get resolved real damn soon (might I suggest stealing the tacky gold plated shit from your nearest Mar-a-lago or Trump affiliated business). Even more unfortunately that might be exactly the excuse Trump is looking for to declare martial law. This is what nearly half a century of Reaganomics has gotten us. Maybe we can finally convince some of these idiots that cutting taxes on the rich and removing regulations on corporations does absolutely nothing good.

[–] chosensilence@pawb.social 3 points 6 days ago

that makes perfect sense. thank you.

load more comments (9 replies)