this post was submitted on 23 Oct 2025
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A Boring Dystopia

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[–] Sciaphobia@sh.itjust.works 276 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (13 children)

"In many ways, this age group is in a better place financially, on average, than their parents were at this age. The problem is that they don’t seem to know it."

Yeah? What ways are those?

Is this one?

“Our expectations are so much higher today,” says Melissa Kearney, an economist at the University of Maryland whose research focuses on children and family. “Generations before us didn’t expect to have large houses where every kid had a bedroom and there were multiple vacations.”

We just shouldn't expect to have mansions for our many many kids? Fuck you. I don't have kids, am experienced in a well paying career and I can't afford a house at all unless I go somewhere that I can't find the kind of work I do in. That's not even considering the lack of kids many of us have, because we can't afford them.

Fuck this out of touch shit. I'm so sick of these people who already got theirs telling the people who can't do the same that it's their own fault. This fucking article goes further than that suggesting it's worse than our own fault because we're better situated somehow.

Avocado toast ass argument. This country needs more guillotines.

[–] kibiz0r@midwest.social 99 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (4 children)

Yeah, they cherry-pick that average income is up vs previous generations, adjusted for inflation.

Okay, but… cost of living has gone up.

Not just for the things that existed 40 years ago, but also from the new things that are necessary for maintaining a career, like broadband internet and a smartphone.

Needing a fucking subscription for your toaster or hair dryer or stairs or whatever. Having to tip your landlord.

They had a guy in the article that owes 200k in student loans! This is not apples-to-apples.

And also, so what if it’s up in average? Inequality is the worst it’s ever been. They barely sneak an asterisk in to address that, too.

[–] Pollo_Jack@lemmy.world 33 points 3 days ago

Average income isn't even useful because the only salaries that have gone up are CEOs.

[–] merdaverse@lemmy.zip 30 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

Average real income (adjusted for inflation) has been pretty steady in the last 50 years for the bottom 50% bracket. The higher up you go in the income bracket the higher the growth becomes. The real income of the top 0.01% has grown by 670% in that same time. So you can see where all that extra wealth generated from 2x productivity boost has gone. Trickle up economics.

Source with nice graphs

*This is for the USA, but if you look at data for other countries the tendency is the same.

[–] Doc_Crankenstein@slrpnk.net 2 points 19 hours ago

"trickle up economics"

Aka ... Capitalism

[–] Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 14 points 3 days ago

UK hasn't seen that same productivity increase but has seen the increasing inequality.

We know it's bullshit so we stopped trying to work hard.

[–] ameancow@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

They had a guy in the article that owes 200k in student loans!

Everything else can be argued when it comes to growth/wages, but by far the single most crippling issue we have in the US is massive debt to survive, and once you're in debt, you often never get out.

We had a term for this in the middle-ages.

History repeats over and over.

[–] HubertManne@piefed.social 1 points 2 days ago

yeah average means we have mcmansions now. Let me know when modal is up compared to inflation. Or average of the second and third quartile (rich is where most of it is at but poorest its to easy for it to rise without effectively doing anything for them)

[–] Scubus@sh.itjust.works 78 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Your parents had one dollar, you have three. Much rich. Nevermind the fact that your parents one dollar was the down payment on a car and you cant afford a bowl of lettuce.

[–] Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.ca 43 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I remember reading this in an Uncle Scrooge comic when I was a kid. For context, Uncle Scrooge was explaining how money works to his nephews. The gist was "it's not how much money, but how much it will buy that counts".

I learned that lesson from a Scottish cartoon duck.

[–] Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 18 points 3 days ago (1 children)

How many hours did I have to work for this?

[–] Sciaphobia@sh.itjust.works 9 points 3 days ago

I unironically use that as one of the measures I use for assessing whether something I could do is worth the effort or not. Want to try a video game? How much of my life did I have to sell to afford what it will cost? Things like that. It's not the only consideration, of course, but it definitely is one.

[–] waspentalive@lemmy.world 30 points 3 days ago (2 children)

They had $1.00, but the bread was 50 cents. The 30-somethings have $3.00, but bread is now $5.00, just saying how many slips of green paper a has compared to b is useless when those slips buy less and less.

[–] bitjunkie@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

The misdirection is entirely deliberate.

[–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 7 points 3 days ago

Guys, guys, you're forgetting how much cheaper TVs have gotten! /s

[–] Thedogdrinkscoffee@lemmy.ca 40 points 3 days ago (1 children)

It's not out of touch, its deliberate gaslighting.

[–] blargle@sh.itjust.works 12 points 3 days ago (1 children)

It would be gaslighting if the intended audience was the young people it was talking about. But they aren't the ones reading the Wall Street Journal.

It's right-wing propaganda designed to confirm the existing biases of boomer haves (their real audience) toward gen-z have-nots (the smeared out-group)

[–] Thedogdrinkscoffee@lemmy.ca 4 points 2 days ago

Meh. There is always a pipeline of aspirants. The temporarily embarrased millionaires.

[–] unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 41 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Aaaaah nooooo they actually used the words "arrested development" which is the name of the show that this quote comes from:

It’s one banana, Michael. What could it cost, $10?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl_Qyk9DSUw

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrested_Development

[–] djdarren@piefed.social 2 points 2 days ago

These days that's not far off the truth.

[–] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 29 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Are those smaller houses in the room with us?

Lmao, like in 95% of the US people can't build anything but single family houses.

[–] Whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world 14 points 3 days ago (2 children)

I don't know about the entirety of the country, but I do know that around me, the only affordable homes being built or sold are for people 55 years and older. It's like a slap in the face when you're looking for somewhere to live and oh, whoops, you're 20 years too young!

Is the baby boomer generation even buying those places? My experience is only anecdotal, but I don't know a single baby boomer who's moved to a seniors-only community. It's something my grandma did, but my parents? They're moving to a state with a lower cost of living and getting a bigger house than the one I grew up in. 😑

Meanwhile, my best chance of having an affordable apartment requires winning a low income housing lottery. Yes, a literal lottery. That's what decides if I'll be living in my car or not next year (or, dread of dreads, doing what my mom keeps telling me to do and uprooting my entire life to move to a southern state like she's doing. I told her that if I have to move, I'd rather move out of the country. I also told her that I don't want to live anywhere where I may be left to die if I end up with an ectopic pregnancy. She's too detached from reality to understand.)

[–] EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I'll probably live in 55+ housing when I'm of age. I specifically want a smaller home since I'm a bit of a minimalist, and of course the lower prices on these is a big draw.

It's shitty that these are not generally accessible to younger people. But then the age restriction is probably what keeps the prices lower by limiting the marketability and competition.

[–] Soggy@lemmy.world 7 points 3 days ago

I know two women who have gone through an ectopic. First very nearly died, second got lucky and caught it while it was merely urgent. They'd both be dead if we lived in a state with worse medical rights.

[–] bcgm3@lemmy.world 20 points 3 days ago

Just more propaganda from the haves to the have-nots. Everything that sucks about your life is directly related to your personal lack of willpower, your unwillingness to hustle, your inability to see the ways the market moves and pivot in just the right way and at just the right moment. No, don't look at your neighbors, stop noticing all the other crabs in the bucket, this is your shortcoming. This is because you suck. Work more hours, sacrifice more of your connection to nature and friends and family, stop asking questions. What is life if not servitude? What is existence if not submission? Stop thinking and start doing what you're told. Don't look up. Don't you EVER look up.

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 14 points 3 days ago (2 children)

I can't afford a house at all unless I go somewhere that I can't find the kind of work I do

I think this is a key point.

The average house prices in major cities has gone up ridiculous amounts. But, if you look at the average national house prices it isn't as dramatic. The problem is, that there are a lot of jobs that only exist in those expensive, major cities. It doesn't much matter if a house in the suburbs of Detroit is dirt cheap if your job doesn't exist anywhere near Detroit.

So, you have places where the housing prices are reasonable, but nobody earns a really high wage because it isn't one of the major metro areas in the country. Then you have places where the jobs exist but housing is completely out of reach.

Also, it seems to me like the big issue is that while some goods have become cheaper and cheaper over the years, the ones that have become prohibitively expensive are the important ones. Like, look at Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Food price inflation and overall price inflation have been about the same since the 80s, but since 2020 that's not true. Since then food has become much more expensive relative to the inflating dollar. Then there's housing (a.k.a. "shelter") that has been outpacing inflation by a massive amount since Reagan's time, but even worse since 2020. The only thing that has become cheaper in at the bottom of Maslow's pyramid is clothing. But, the kind of clothing that's cheap is "fast fashion". It's not basic "shelter" type clothing. Maybe that has become cheaper, but enough clothing to survive was never a major expense.

The next tier up in Maslow's hierarchy is safety needs: personal security, health and wellbeing, financial security, safety nets. This is probably the area that has been hit the hardest. Because of America's messed up healthcare system healthcare costs are getting more and more expensive. Financial security is also a joke for most non-boomers. The US has no safety net to speak of. And personal security, in the era of Trump, I think a lot of people feel much less secure.

There are things that are part of the consumer price calculation that have been getting cheaper. But, if you can't meet your basic needs, that really doesn't matter. Sure, my grandpa would have been absolutely amazed with the entertainment I can get on a screen. Compared to a black and white TV a modern TV is incredibly cheap, amazingly high quality, the selection of things to watch is astounding, etc. But gramps had a steady job, a guaranteed pension, reasonable medical costs, a house that could be bought for a couple of years of salary, etc.

[–] IronBird@lemmy.world 7 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

remove all speculation incentives from housing, fuck remove all speculation incentives full-stop, and maybe all these rich cunts will actually do something with their $ (like pay for housing to be built, since there is such a massive market for it) instead of jerk themselves off while watching lines go up.

the reason the US is falling is because we've built a nation of gamblers that would rather watch lines go up, and and then argue/gamble on why those lines are/arent going up, than do any actual work

the real fucked irony here is that, as a nobody working up from nothing, if you actually want to change this fucked up system and need capital to do it... by far the most time-effecient method to get it is to just syphon it out of the casino, cause all these degenerate gamblers jerking themselves off to their lines going up haven't figured out that everybody knows the rules now...and they're getting/going to be absolutely fleeced out of every $ they put into this bubble.

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 7 points 2 days ago (2 children)

It's more than just speculation incentives from housing. I agree that needs to be done, but it's nowhere near enough.

A bigger issue is that with the complete mess things are in, for a lot of people near retirement age, the only asset they own is their home. That means they're going to desperately fight to keep house prices high, and ideally to keep them going up and up. But, this completely fucks over anybody who doesn't yet own a home.

As part of their fight to protect the value of their homes, they'll block any new construction in the neighbourhood because it will lower the value of their homes. As a result, this blocks new, denser housing construction for anybody who needs a house. The only place where NIMBYs aren't blocking new housing are suburbs in the middle of nowhere. And, construction companies aren't going to be building condos or small houses out in the middle of nowhere. Those homes are going to be big, suburban homes. So, the only real hope for someone who needs a house is that someone moves out to one of these big new homes in the suburbs. But, retired people aren't going to do that. They're looking to downsize, if anything. So, they're more likely to just stay in their current homes.

Basically, what's needed is to do whatever it takes to keep houses from appreciating in value, and to go around NIMBYs who try to block densification. But, to do that, you also have to address the problem that these boomers don't have a real safety net, and their house is the one thing they own of value. Oh, and the boomers vote and lobby effectively... so...

[–] EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

The housing market is just a big fucking pyramid scheme.

Stocks go up and up and up too, but they aren't an essential good (e.g. shelter) or even tied directly to any day-to-day utility. They can also be cut into smaller increments by splitting or via fractional shares, so they remain accessible even to people with modest amounts of money to invest.

Real estate as a speculative investment has been hugely detrimental to society and has a lot of ancillary effects (e.g. sprawl and car dependency).

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 day ago

IMO in a well run country real estate should not go up in value. If your great-great-great-great-grandfather could have bought a house for 3 years of his wages, you should be able to buy an equivalent house for 3 years of your wages, assuming you're buying a similar house and have similar wages.

The value of a house should go up only because of overall inflation going up. But, it should slightly lag behind inflation, because older houses need repairs to bring them back up to the standard they were in when they were new.

Basically anything other than a house should be a better investment than a house: a treasury, a savings account, a gold nugget.

I mean, imagine if there was anything else in the world that went up in value in a way similar to stocks, but was also something that you used. Imagine if, instead of depreciating immediately, your car went up in value each year. Or, imagine if your clothes were consistently worth more than when you bought them. It's ridiculous that houses are both something you use and put wear and tear on, but also something that goes up in value every single year.

[–] IronBird@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

eh, I dont think nimby's are as much a problem outside of the biggest-most organized cities.

our democratic participation is so shit across the board (especially at the local level) all it would take is a decently coordinated ad-campaign to sweep in whatever local government reforms you could want

the bigger issue (imo) is finding someone with the capital/connections required to get big projects like high-density housing started, who isnt also just another rich piece of shit

I got this idea for a co-op high-density construction company i'm currently fighting like hell for the seed-capital to get started. siphoning all i can off this everything-bubble while it's lasts, not too proud of that but it's the only way someone in my position can get the capital required

[–] Sciaphobia@sh.itjust.works 7 points 3 days ago

Well said. I would add to the healthcare point that the system for providing insurance through an employer is a way to tether people to a job without having to offer benefits like pensions. Why would a company need to entice a person to stay with a strong benefits package that includes the possibility of being able to retire of they can be either crippled with medical debt, chained to a job to reduce the chance of being crippled by medical debt, or both?

I am under no illusion that things were utopian for previous generations, but the idea that things are better for people broadly, and not worse in insidious ways through continual assaults on working conditions, workers rights, and ability to generate net worth is... frustrating.

[–] Witchfire@lemmy.world 8 points 3 days ago

My partner and I thrive in a two bedroom. One room for sleep, and one studio/guest room (we're both artists). Apparently that's too much to ask.

[–] HubertManne@piefed.social 2 points 2 days ago

house with every kid having a bedroom? Having anything. The smallest condo without the constant fear of losing it is all I see anyone "expecting" Don't get me wrong I complain how my janitor father could afford what is nowadays a dilapidated mansion and is completely unachievable but I don't expect to be able to get that. I mean. I very much would like to.

[–] AlexLost@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago

You have access to more things, but less means to actually access them. These people are way out of touch. Heck, most of them think illegal immigrants actually get a free ride while they have e to pay for everything. Can you be more obtuse?

[–] kureta@lemmy.ml 4 points 3 days ago

we are rich but we don't know it. we'll that's... rich.