this post was submitted on 20 Oct 2025
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[–] icelimit@lemmy.ml 1 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

The ww2 example (assuming that's what you're referring to) is a very brief (if violent) conflict relative to the one we're discussing in this topic, which is spread over at least centuries. Not too mention that ww2 was a burst of activity and a decisive conclusion was reached, unlike the conflict in question. Greece/turkey is a good example of a conflict that lasts at least a similar duration. Ireland/UK is also closer in that regard, but still is 'only' over decades of conflict.

With centuries of bad blood, the respective definitions of 'justice' from either side (in their various forms) have clearly drifted very far apart from each other. The 'how' aside (as seemingly no one is willing to nor able to achieve it), what would a realistic and just peace look like in your eyes for the region? Because I think we have to accept that (base on Greece/Turkey) a feud that lasts over a century is not overcome in one generation.

I won't say much about the Balkans as I'm not well read on it and it seems to be one with more than two main actors.

[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 1 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

The Franco-German rivalry I had in mind is much older. WW2 was the very final phase of it, but it is clearly present and recognizable at least as early as 1871, ie 70 years earlier, whereas the supposed chronology goes all the way back to the 1400s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French%E2%80%93German_enmity

Regardless, I don't have the answer, obviously, but I wouldn't underestimate the capacity of the Israelis and Palestinians to actually get to a (likely implicit/de facto) agreement of what they think is an acceptable answer. But for that, I would imagine serious external pressure to Israel would be needed, similar as the one exerted to the white Afrikaners...

[–] icelimit@lemmy.ml 1 points 5 days ago

I see. You referred to Poland/Netherlands and Belgium together so I thought it was more likely ww2 that you were referring to.

The extended feud between France and Germany is a good example. Today they are what I think we are is a 'just and lasting' peace. This however was precluded by the violence of ww2. Quite far from a peaceful reconciliation although it was quite final (so far).

Over the centuries prior, did other neighbouring nations or further abroad attempt to pressure either (or both) sides to reconcile in a peaceful manner? Did it ever work out?

What I'm getting at here in a rather long winded manner is that the underlying friction between Israel and Palestine (or Hamas or other neighbouring Islamic states) go back very far, and it likely will be only time that will heal this to a lasting reconciliation. External pressures likely will only become counterproductive.

In the meantime, more will suffer. Moreso on the 'weaker' side. We can point fingers all we want, but from their frame of reference, our versions of justice are simply incompatible with theirs. To us, their apparent lack of morality is infantile.