this post was submitted on 15 Mar 2025
81 points (98.8% liked)

Buy European

3527 readers
1793 users here now

Overview:

The community to discuss buying European goods and services.

Rules:

  • Be kind to each other, and argue in good faith. No direct insults nor disrespectful and condescending comments.

  • Do not use this community to promote Nationalism/Euronationalism. This community is for discussing European products/services and news related to that. For other topics the following might be of interest:

Feddit.uk's instance rules apply:

  • No racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia or xenophobia
  • No incitement of violence or promotion of violent ideologies
  • No harassment, dogpiling or doxxing of other users
  • Do not share intentionally false or misleading information
  • Do not spam or abuse network features.
  • Alt accounts are permitted, but all accounts must list each other in their bios.

Benefits of Buying Local:

local investment, job creation, innovation, increased competition, more redundancy.

Matrix Chat

Related Communities:

Buy Local:

!buycanadian@lemmy.ca

!buyafrican@baraza.africa

!buyFromEU@lemm.ee

!buyfromeu@feddit.org

Buying and Selling:!flohmarkt@lemmy.ca

Boycott:!boycottus@lemmy.ca

Stop Publisher Kill Switch in Games Practice:!stopkillinggames@lemm.ee


Banner credits: BYTEAlliance


founded 1 month ago
MODERATORS
 

https://veklar.com/

First time I see this, not sure what they mean

top 26 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] FundMECFSResearch@lemmy.blahaj.zone 31 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

For their use case it makes sense.

They want heightened privacy features like making likes and follows private, which is something that is incompatible with the current state of activitypub.

[–] Sylvartas@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

You're telling me I brought this pitchfork all the way over here for nothing ?

[–] dumbass@leminal.space 8 points 7 hours ago

You can go turn that garden bed over if ya want.

[–] sinceasdf@lemmy.world 15 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago)

People probably should be more aware that what happens on here is mostly public and also why that's a better alternative to only giving data to private networks run by companies with trade secrets.

Giving data out to everyone prevents an outsized amount of leverage being given to single companies. Facebook doesn't have anywhere near as much kingmaking power if the same methods can be used by competitors or exposed and mitigated for outright.

Being open source, you also can know exactly what the fediverse is collecting and it's currently a fuck load less than the massive data stream companies like Facebook record.

[–] skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl 44 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago) (1 children)

Their reasoning isn't necessarily bad:

They do explain their reasoning:

Expand for alt text"The ActivityPub protocol, standardised by W3C and governing exchanges within the Fediverse, requires us to clearly identify you when you interact with another platform, which is normal in order to prevent falsification of exchanges.

Opening such a breach would go against our commitments and philosophy on data protection and anonymity.

If we don't expose your likes and follows it's not to make them public on platforms that can be hosted anywhere and by anyone thanks to decentralised applications such as Mastodon.

This would also be a problem regarding our commitments in terms of moderation and the protection of minors, since profiles moderated by other platforms, with their own rules, could interact with Veklar users.

The Fediverse is open and anyone can decide to join in the future. This is particularly the case for Meta, which has already prepared Threads for its foray into the Fediverse, and is also thinking about integrating Instagram. Google could also join the Fediverse with YouTube. In all its principles, Veklar is committed to protecting you from GAFAM and ensuring the sovereignty of your personal data and your public image."

They use Threads as an example of what could happen to the Fediverse, but who knows how many companies are out there with fake Mastodon/Lemmy servers, subscribing to as many feeds as they can, letting the Fediverse handle delivering structured, scrapable data for them so they can work on their AIs or thread intel or marketing profiles.

They also have a point with their attempts to keep likes/follows private: that's something a lot of users want, and something a lot of users are surprised to learn doesn't exist on the Fediverse. The Fediverse is more metadata than data and that's not something everyone likes sharing. With monoliths like Veklar, you only need to trust one server not to datamine your every move rather than thousands of servers.

Speaking of privacy, most of the Fediverse isn't compatible with any privacy laws I've seen. For a bunch of hobbyists that's probably fine because privacy enforcement agencies have better things to do, but for a company that intends to make money and wants to actually become an alternative, that's a problem. A GDPR-compliant Fediverse server would need to record which other servers which bits of PII have been shared, how that information is protected (does lemmy.world even encrypt their database?), and with what other servers that information was shared in turn. That's practically impossible. The Fediverse exists in Europe because it's unimportant and unprofessional enough not to attract lawsuits.

They also have a good point about moderation. I could trivially spam every Lemmy server full of CSAM with maybe $100 in cloud credit to the point the FBI becomes interested. The Fediverse, and in particular Lemmy, is a bit like the Old Internet, assuming everyone has good intentions and that the minority with bad intentions can be handled by human interaction. New servers don't get vetted, new moderation environments don't get verified, and server administrators are left to their own devices to get rid of botnets and other malicious entities if they don't want their server to become a spam relay.

I think the upsides of the Fediverse are worth the risks. Veklar clearly thinks otherwise. They're not necessarily wrong, they just have different priorities.

[–] jmcs@discuss.tchncs.de 18 points 14 hours ago (2 children)

Mastodon and Lemmy don't actually share any data actually protected by GDPR, unless the users actively make it public (like using their real name).

[–] Tuuktuuk@sopuli.xyz 1 points 18 minutes ago

Am I right in my understanding that if you run a federated Lemmy instance, you can see who has upvoted what, even on other instances?

Is that not something protected by GDPR?

[–] skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl 0 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

PII includes any information that can be used to link or correlate personal information. That includes usernames and account IDs. Every like/upvote contains that information, as well as a timestamp, indicating a unique account but also behaviour. The system doesn't just share a list of names, it shares a list of names with a lot of context. Stuff like this is also why pseudonymisation isn't sufficient to avoid GDPR obligations.

Usernames aren't sensitive information, so you can handle it without too much special care (although you do need to ensure basic protection of login credentials against data leaks, for instance by encrypting databases as a minimum requirement). They are PII, though, which means you're obligated to take some level of care and ensure that the information can be corrected or redacted everywhere.

The GDPR simply wasn't written with something like the Fediverse in mind. My server knowing when your account upvoted what posts on a third server would be ridiculous if we're talking about Twitter and Facebook, but it's the core of vote counting on Lemmy.

[–] jmcs@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 57 minutes ago* (last edited 52 minutes ago)

GDPR doesn't include things you choose to make public, otherwise no social media could show your posts or username to anyone. My only doubt about Lemmy and Mastodon is about DMs where people have a reasonable expectation that they are private but they are not.

Edit: and thinking about it, even DMs probably fall into the same exception as email.

[–] Isa@feddit.org 27 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

Well, we are an evil and creepy lot, aren't we?Morticia and Gomez Addams, sitting on a sofa. Gomez appearing to be in mid sentence.

[–] Venicon@lemmy.world 11 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

This will always be Morticia and Gomez Addams in my head.

[–] Fiivemacs@lemmy.ca 2 points 15 hours ago (2 children)
[–] Eldritch@lemmy.world 3 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

For those of us that grew up with the TV show, no. John Astin literally named the character he played. Before the television show the characters didn't all have names.

The movies are fine, and there's nothing wrong if you enjoy them. But for myself John Astin and Carolyn Jones are the iconic couple. But then I was born over a decade before the movies. But just two years after the television shows 1975 Halloween special. So it may be a generational thing.

[–] Venicon@lemmy.world 4 points 15 hours ago

There's been multiple actors in the parts over the years but these two were perfect I think.

[–] EuropeanMade@feddit.uk 21 points 15 hours ago (2 children)

I don't really feel I need protecting from the Fediverse, more from the "regular" social networks

[–] JustEnoughDucks@feddit.nl 1 points 17 minutes ago* (last edited 15 minutes ago)

To play devils advocate though, any "regular social media company" can tap into the fediverse and harvest all of the data and do whatever fucked up things they want to it. The fediverse doesn't protect you from them, it just puts you outside their algorithm control. Though even that is debatable because it is possible that a lot of posters on Lemmy may have first seen the content from algorithm-driven sources.

[–] Atelopus-zeteki@fedia.io 9 points 13 hours ago

Right!?! I'm ok with anarchy, and a non-commercial, non-corporate social media. Not in any need of being protected, whatsoever.

[–] fdrc_ff@www.foxyhole.io 12 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

@Blaze@feddit.nl they even made a cute little graphic including some niche softwares, so cute

[–] Blaze@feddit.nl 11 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

Definitely the biggest threats around

[–] fdrc_ff@www.foxyhole.io 17 points 16 hours ago (2 children)

@Blaze@feddit.nl oh I see
Basically they see the Fediverse as a data breach with no actual control over what happen to data the moment it gets to other servers (actually true) and especially if GAFAM gets involved. I mean, I get this they want to stay super-private. But I think that private social networks is a bit naive as an idea

[–] Charlxmagne@lemm.ee 12 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

If google actually integrates yt to the fediverse it might genuinely be the best thing they ever did, I genuinely hope they do cuz it's the one centralised social media I actively use and the only google service I use in general.

Plus it goes without saying it objectively has the largest amount of high quality content regularly posted by thousands of people.

It could be the thing that would let a lot of users fully degoogle/decouple from google's monopoly and bring a LOT more eyes onto the fediverse as a whole.

[–] Blaze@feddit.nl 9 points 16 hours ago

I kind of see where they come from too, but the way they present it just seems strange

[–] tiempo@friendica.world 0 points 8 hours ago

@Blaze aaaaaaaaaah..... La frase es como el forro, pero es una incompatibilidad de principios que se traduce en aspectos técnicos (y una critica fuerte al hecho que Meta y google buscan federar)

[–] tiempo@friendica.world -1 points 8 hours ago

@Blaze aaaaaaaaaah..... La frase es como el forro, pero es una incompatibilidad de principios que se traduce en aspectos técnicos (y una critica fuerte al hecho que Meta y google buscan federar)

[–] tiempo@friendica.world -1 points 8 hours ago
[–] tiempo@friendica.world -1 points 8 hours ago