this post was submitted on 12 May 2025
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FediLore + Fedidrama

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Chronicle the life and tale of the fediverse (+ matrix)

Largely a sublemmy about capturing drama, from fediverse spanning drama to just lemmy drama.

Includes lore like how a instance got it's name, how an instance got defederated, how an admin got doxxed, fedihistory etc

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[–] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 26 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (9 children)

I find that trashing on all of Lemmy development and lemmy.ml from nutomic's one questionable stance to be a little idiotic, but that's just my opinion. Those things are the work of more than just one person. Dessalines is a heavy lifter in moderation and development, and they're pretty decent. Various contributors have provided code/features, translations, apps and interfaces to Lemmy. Moderators of all server types have their own opinions on stuff.

But to an extent we all have to put that aside, because face it, perfectly sanitized opinions have nothing to do with code quality. We all have a couple shitty opinions, but what makes someone a decent human being and not a bigot is recognizing where their actions and opinions cause harm unto others and try to minimize that. This harm reduction can include changing actions and opinions, but it can also be keeping harmful actions and opinions away from people it would harm. This is where Ada probably sees banning nutomic from the instance as sufficient rather than all of .ml

Yeah, the whole China/Russia can do no wrong sort of thing is a pervasive problem on Lemmy.ml, but likewise they keep moderation of that to within the confines of their instance. The running costs of a server are virtually nothing compared to cost of working full-time to maintain software, so most donations don't really go to hosting the .ml server itself but rather to development. I don't personally agree with the .ml admins on many things, but I'll defend them for allowing others to run online communities how they want in return for letting every one of us do the same. I've likewise defended Ada's decisions on how they want to root out transphobia from their server, that's their choice, and so far it seems to have served Blahaj users well.

[–] Genius@lemmy.zip 19 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (5 children)

I think this is an inconsistent move from the Blahaj team. They defederated feddit over one transphobic user who the admins wouldn't deal with. And I agree with that decision. They should make the same decision here. If lemmy.ml won't ban Nutomic, then it's clear they aren't interested in creating a safe environment for trans people.

Regardless of any funding question, I think every instance should be questioning federation with .ml over their acceptance of Nutomic. And that goes double for any instance committed to inclusivity, because they have a responsibility to their users to uphold the values those users expect.

[–] RedSeries@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 17 hours ago (4 children)

Just to clarify, the defederation from feddit.uk has more to do with the admins allowing transphobic comments to remain because of the EHRC ruling and then ghosting Ada when asked to clarify their policies around dealing with transphobia. It wasn't just one user.

I still agree with considering lemmy.ml for defederation.

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[–] hitmyspot@aussie.zone 17 points 1 day ago

I don't think it's inconsistent. My understanding is that the bad comments were in private messages and although they don't disown then or apologise for their views, they are not making transphobic comments in threads.

In the feddit case, transphobia discourse was active and unmoderated. I have no doubt that if that was the case for .ml, then blahaj would defederate.

There is no point in federation of you defederate from every instance with bad users. Ban the user, not the instance. In the case of an instance not moderating hateful content, ban the instance.

[–] Overspark@feddit.nl 2 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

As a feddit.nl user it would help if you included the TLD, there are several servers that call themselves feddit. 😊

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[–] Chozo@fedia.io 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I can definitely understand how this may seem as an inconsistency on Ada's part. I've been critical of Ada in the past, but I see this as more of Ada taking a calculated, diplomatic approach.

With the Feddit situation, Feddit is just another random Lemmy instance, so there's no real loss in defederating. But ML is where Lemmy development is centered, and whether Blahaj users like it or not, they do have an intrinsic interest in the development of Lemmy's code. They want Blahaj to be a safe space, which requires moderation tools to be developed, and it's helpful to keep an open connection with the developers in that case so that Blahaj's input and contributions can be considered when these tools are built.

At least, that's just my speculation as to why there's an inconsistency.

[–] Genius@lemmy.zip 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I think it would be better for Lemmy's development if everyone defederated lemmy.ml. If Dessalines weren't so busy banning users on other instances for pointing out the Uyghur genocide, he'd have a lot more time to write code.

[–] Binette@lemmy.ml -2 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (19 children)

the devs of lemmy are already working on it full time. they're not the ones who do most of the moderation work.

the thing i've always hated about most people outside ml is that they always make assumptions, not even wondering if what they're saying might be false. if you're gonna be prissy about something, at least get your facts straight.

edit: sorry about the last paragraph. i just supposed that you were making stuff up because i couldn't find the modlog, but didn't know any better.

[–] Genius@lemmy.zip 0 points 14 hours ago

they always make assumptions, not even wondering if what they're saying might be false

Ha.

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[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 3 points 1 day ago

I halfway agree with you, the first part at least: I don't mind if people have opinions I think are wrong or stupid. It is fine. Unpopular opinion, I also think letting nutomic have some kind of transphobia and talk about it is fine. The alternative is that every opinion that someone thinks is "incorrect" gets driven underground where no one talks about it, and so anyone who does hold that view can't really have a conversation about it or learn where and how exactly they are wrong. It just festers, and eventually they find more people who also think that way, and none of them talk about it in public because they've learned not to. It's just a stupid cultural feature.

This stance does make it kind of silly that Ada defederated from some other server because of one random user on there, saying that if the admins won't ban that user then how can she protect her users against ever seeing someone with a wrong opinion, and so bang, defederation. For some reason, the exact same logic does not apply to lemmy.ml even though the one random user in this case is also an admin. Who knows. But anyway, for my opinion she is making the right call in this case, and made the wrong call in the previous one-random-user case.

To me, the great sin of .ml isn't their bad opinions, although they are very bad. It is that they are unapologetically heavy-handed about manipulating the conversation to require their users to hold those opinions also. That to me is terrible. It's dishonest. It's like sending fake votes out into the network, it's like editing people's comments after they write them. It's just wrong. I think someone who takes that attitude towards other people's communications has no place on a shared network where we cooperate to get communication done, and the fact that those other people have accounts on their server and so "belong to them" or whatever doesn't in any way excuse it.

I don't know what's in their heads that they think "these users are ours, so we can do what we like with their content" is reasonable. Also, to be honest, I don't know why people put up with it. I think the propaganda that recasts it as "defending the space" from bigotry or Western propaganda has a lot to do with it, sort of putting up a distorted reality where what they are doing is actually some other, unrelated, thing, and so people look at it in that light instead. I don't know.

Anyway, I sorta agree with you on the main thing. nutomic holding opinions I think are wrong isn't a crisis. People can think what they want as long as they're honest about it and let other people be honest about it too. That's my feeling.

[–] ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

From what I understand the transphobic comment from nutomic was from a publicized DM. So it's a stretch, in that sense, to seek defederating an instance over it, as the ban is justified to begin with.

[–] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz -5 points 21 hours ago

People shouldn't send transphobic nonsense in private messages either

[–] OmegaLemmy@discuss.online -3 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

Your entire opinion is null and void when you don't even get the nuances of why they would even start to express their support for Russia in the Ukrainian war, you just assume they like totalitarianism, incredible attitude

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[–] Boomkop3@reddthat.com 8 points 1 day ago

Can that hypocrite leave already?

[–] Realitaetsverlust@lemmy.zip 4 points 22 hours ago (3 children)

Blahaj is a shit place, so no surprise. You can support the biggest warmongers and dictators on planet earth, but as long as you dont't have some mild criticism of the lgbtq community, you're good to go.

Pathetic instance with a really fucked up moral compass.

[–] sunzu2@thebrainbin.org -1 points 12 hours ago

You either talk as blaha told you you or you are transphob.

Ada is doing the community a disservice since Fedi does not have transphibia, so her fighting these windmills only making residents more hostile to her server lol

Idiotic public relations tactics.

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[–] jsomae@lemmy.ml 2 points 22 hours ago (2 children)

out of the loop -- what did we do wrong?

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