this post was submitted on 18 May 2025
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Big brain tech dude got yet another clueless take over at HackerNews etc? Here's the place to vent. Orange site, VC foolishness, all welcome.

This is not debate club. Unless it’s amusing debate.

For actually-good tech, you want our NotAwfulTech community

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Need to let loose a primal scream without collecting footnotes first? Have a sneer percolating in your system but not enough time/energy to make a whole post about it? Go forth and be mid: Welcome to the Stubsack, your first port of call for learning fresh Awful you’ll near-instantly regret.

Any awful.systems sub may be subsneered in this subthread, techtakes or no.

If your sneer seems higher quality than you thought, feel free to cut’n’paste it into its own post — there’s no quota for posting and the bar really isn’t that high.

The post Xitter web has spawned soo many “esoteric” right wing freaks, but there’s no appropriate sneer-space for them. I’m talking redscare-ish, reality challenged “culture critics” who write about everything but understand nothing. I’m talking about reply-guys who make the same 6 tweets about the same 3 subjects. They’re inescapable at this point, yet I don’t see them mocked (as much as they should be)

Like, there was one dude a while back who insisted that women couldn’t be surgeons because they didn’t believe in the moon or in stars? I think each and every one of these guys is uniquely fucked up and if I can’t escape them, I would love to sneer at them.

(Credit and/or blame to David Gerard for starting this.)

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[–] sailor_sega_saturn@awful.systems 16 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)
[–] nightsky@awful.systems 13 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Oh god, so many horror quotes in there.

With a community of 116 million users a month, Duolingo has amassed loads of data about how people learn

...and that's why I try to avoid using smartphone apps as much as possible.

“Ultimately, I’m not sure that there’s anything computers can’t really teach you,”

How about common sense..

“it’s just a lot more scalable to teach with AI than with teachers.”

Ugh. So terrible. Tech's obsession with "scaling" is one of the worst things about tech.

If “it’s one teacher and like 30 students, each teacher cannot give individualized attention to each student,” he said. “But the computer can.

No, it cannot. It's a statistical model, it cannot give attention to anything or anyone, what are you talking about.

Duolingo’s CFO made similar comments last year, saying, “AI helps us replicate what a good teacher does”

Did this person ever have a good teacher in their life

the company has essentially run 16,000 A/B tests over its existence

Aaaarrgh. Tech's obsession with A/B testing is another one of the worst things about tech.

Ok I stop here now, there's more, almost every paragraph contains something horrible.

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[–] sailor_sega_saturn@awful.systems 15 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

Urgh over the past month I have seen more and more people on social media using chat-gpt to write stuff for them, or to check facts, and getting defensive instead of embarrassed about it.

Maybe this is a bit old woman yells at cloud -- but I'd lie if I said I wasn't worried about language proficiency atrophying in the population (and leading to me having to read slop all the time)

[–] mountainriver@awful.systems 10 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Overheard my kids, one of them had some group project in school and the other asked who they had ended up in group with. After hearing the names, the reaction was "they are good, none of them will use AI".

So as always kids that actually does something in group projects doesn't want to end up in a group with kids that won't contribute. Difference is just that instead of just slacking off and doing nothing they will today "contribute" AI slop. And as always the main lesson from group projects in school is avoid ending up in a group with slackers.

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[–] BlueMonday1984@awful.systems 15 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

In other news, the ghost of Dorian has haunted an autoplag system:

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[–] o7___o7@awful.systems 14 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

A lawyer who depends on a sufficiently advanced AI is indistinguishable from a sovereign citizen.

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[–] o7___o7@awful.systems 14 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Our subjects here at awful systems can make us angry. They can spend lots of money to make everything worse. They can even make us dead if things go really off the rails, but one thing they can never do is make us take them seriously.

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[–] sailor_sega_saturn@awful.systems 14 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (13 children)

OK completely off topic but update on my USA angst from earlier this year: I'm heckin' moving to Switzerland next month holy hell.


Back on topic: Duolingo continues to circle the drain. I kind of hate that I'm linking to this because it's exactly what that marketing-run company wants; but they posted these two videos to TikTok in response to the AI backlash: https://www.tiktok.com/@duolingo/video/7506578962697456939?lang=en https://www.tiktok.com/@duolingo/video/7507337734520868142?lang=en

I uh... I don't think it's going to change anyone's minds. Half the comments on the videos go something like:

EVERYONE LISTEN UP!!!! 🚨 - starting from today, we are gonna start ignoring duolingo. We will not like the video it posts, or view it. - BASICALLY WE WILL IGNORE DUO!!💔 💔 ON EVERYBODY SOUL WE IGNORING DUO!! 💔 (copy this and share this to every duo related video)

[–] nightsky@awful.systems 10 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I’m heckin’ moving to Switzerland next month holy hell.

Good luck!!

they posted these two videos to TikTok in response to the AI backlash

The cringey "hello, fellow kids" vibe is really unbearable... good that people are not falling for that.

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[–] swlabr@awful.systems 13 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

Just thinking about how I watched “Soylent Green” in high school and thought the idea of a future where technology just doesn’t work anymore was impossible. Then LLMs come and the first thing people want to do with them is to turn working code into garbage, and then the immediate next thing is to kill living knowledge by normalising people relying on LLMs for operational knowledge. Soon, the oceans will boil, agricultural industries will collapse and we’ll be forced to eat recycled human. How the fuck did they get it so right?

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[–] BlueMonday1984@awful.systems 13 points 2 weeks ago

Found a Bluesky thread you might be interested in:

On a Sci Fi authors’ panel at Comicon today, every writer asked about AI (as in LLM / algorithmic modern gen AI) gave it a kicking, drawing a spontaneous round of applause.

A few years ago, I don’t think that would have happened. People would have said “it’s an interesting tool”, or something.

Bearing in mind these are exactly the people who would be expected to engage with the idea, I think the tech turds have massively underestimated the propaganda faux pas they made by stealing writers’ hard work and then being cunts about it.

Tying this to a previous post of mine, I'm expecting their open and public disdain for gen-AI to end up bleeding into their writing. The obvious route would be AI systems/characters exhibiting the hallmarks of LLMs - hallucinations/confabulations, "AI slop" output, easily bypassable safeguards, that sort of thing.

[–] BlueMonday1984@awful.systems 12 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Friend of mine witnessed some bleak shit, now you get to see it too:

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[–] YourNetworkIsHaunted@awful.systems 12 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

So that article about AI cheating we saw a few weeks back is still doing the rounds. I had missed this Rationalist W in my first read:

I then fed a chunk of text from the Book of Genesis into ZeroGPT and it came back as 93.33 percent AI-generated.

So apparently we're pretty close to instantiating the voice of God through the hallucination machine, which I'm sure is pretty neat.

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[–] aninjury2all@awful.systems 12 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Noted race science proponent and all-around slimeball Cremieux aka J Lasker reveals himself to be a union-hater

Love how all these EdGy DiSsIdEnT tHiNkErS eventually become indistinguishable from big-standard ‘cons

[–] Architeuthis@awful.systems 10 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

Net number of studies reporting positive or negative effects (excluding wages)

excluding wages! (and probably also benefits, retirement, a cap on working hours per day etc)

Is that whole thing in the comments about unions bad because monopolies bad and unions are just monopolies of labor the latest in bootlicking theory? Hadn't really heard this take before.

[–] Amoeba_Girl@awful.systems 10 points 2 weeks ago

ah yes, it's that marxist notion, the monopoly of the proletariat

Studies find unions have negative impacts on things unions aren't concerned with improving. What impact do they have on their actual goal i.e. protecting workers and improving their lot? We didn't bother asking.

Something something UMWA.

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[–] Amoeba_Girl@awful.systems 9 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Wow cool numbers, love to put all unions in one big bag regardless of goals, ideology, trade and mode of action.

[–] scruiser@awful.systems 12 points 2 weeks ago

"You claim to like unions, but seem strangely hostile to police unions. Curious."

  • Turning Point USA
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[–] BlueMonday1984@awful.systems 12 points 2 weeks ago

Update on the Artificial Darth Debacle: SAG-AFTRA just sued Epic for using AI for Darth Vader in the first place:

You want my take, this is gonna be a tough case for SAG - Jones signed off on AI recreations of Vader before his death in 2024, so arguing a lack of consent's off the table right from the get-go.

If SAG do succeed, the legal precedent set would likely lead to a de facto ban on recreating voices using AI. Given SAG-AFTRA's essentially saying that what Epic did is unethical on principle, I suspect that's their goal here.

[–] BlueMonday1984@awful.systems 12 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Got a pair of notable things I ran across recently.

Firstly, an update on Grok's White Genocide Disaster: the person responsible has seemingly revealed themselves, and shown off how they derailed Grok's prompt.. The pull request that initiated this debacle has been preserved on the Internet Archive.

Second, I ran across a Bluesky post which caught my attention:

You want my opinion on the "scab" comment, its another textbook example of the all-consuming AI backlash, one that suggests any usage of AI will be viewed as an open show of hostility towards labour.

[–] Soyweiser@awful.systems 12 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

Think you are misreading the blog post. They did this after the Grok had its white genocide hyperfocus thing. It shows the process of the xAI public github (their fix (??) for Groks hyperfocus) is bad, not that they started it. (There is also no reason to believe this github is actually what they are using directly (would be pretty foolish of them, which is why I could also believe they could be using it))

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[–] lagrangeinterpolator@awful.systems 11 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

I know r/singularity is like shooting fish in a barrel but it really pissed me off seeing them misinterpret the significance of a result in matrix multiplication: https://old.reddit.com/r/singularity/comments/1knem3r/i_dont_think_people_realize_just_how_insane_the/

Yeah, the record has stood for "FIFTY-SIX YEARS" if you don't count all the times the record has been beaten since then. Indeed, "countless brilliant mathematicians and computer scientists have worked on this problem for over half a century without success" if you don't count all the successes that have happened since then. The really annoying part about all this is that the original announcement didn't have to lie: if you look at just 4x4 matrices, you could say there technically hasn't been an improvement since Strassen's algorithm. Wow! It's really funny how these promptfans ignore all the enormous number of human achievements in an area when they decide to comment about how AI is totally gonna beat humans there.

How much does this actually improve upon Strassen's algorithm? The matrix multiplication exponent given by Strassen's algorithm is log~4~(49) (i.e. log~2~(7)), and this result would improve it to log~4~(48). In other words, it improves from 2.81 to 2.79. Truly revolutionary, AGI is gonna make mathematicians obsolete now. Ignore the handy dandy Wikipedia chart which shows that this exponent was ... beaten in 1979.

I know far less about how matrix multiplication is done in practice, but from what I've seen, even Strassen's algorithm isn't useful in applications because memory locality and parallelism are far more important. This AlphaEvolve result would represent a far smaller improvement (and I hope you enjoy the pain of dealing with a 4x4 block matrix instead of 2x2). If anyone does have knowledge about how this works, I'd be interested to know.

[–] aio@awful.systems 9 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Yes - on the theoretical side, they do have an actual improvement, which is a non-asymptotic reduction in the number of multiplications required for the product of two 4x4 matrices over an arbitrary noncommutative ring. You are correct that the implied improvement to omega is moot since theoretical algorithms have long since reduced the exponent beyond that of Strassen's algorithm.

From a practical side, almost all applications use some version of the naive O(n^3) algorithm, since the asymptotically better ones tend to be slower in practice. However, occasionally Strassen's algorithm has been implemented and used - it is still reasonably simple after all. There is possibly some practical value to the 48-multiplications result then, in that it could replace uses of Strassen's algorithm.

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[–] antifuchs@awful.systems 11 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (3 children)

They’re making students listen to fabulated pronunciations of their name at the graduation ceremony https://fixupx.com/CollinRugg/status/1925328380742062485

The Magna Cooom Loud thing could absolutely be a sketch https://fixupx.com/stevemur/status/1925350041277145159

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[–] Soyweiser@awful.systems 10 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Double quick ssc sneer, why is he platforming a groyper, without mentioning it is a groyper, does he know what groypers are. Why is he acting like this is a honest question and not an attempt to create hierarchies and unpersons? Why are people confusing remembering being conscious with remembering things at all? Why are people confusing consciousness with agency? Why do I hear the "empathy removal training center" warning sound again. And the most personal question. People remember not being conscious? But yes, wtf Scott, how do you even find these groypers?

Anybody have the current count on platforming neonazis vs platforming sneerclubbers?

[–] Amoeba_Girl@awful.systems 10 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

God this is so fucking stupid. Aren't these people supposed to be at least minimally smart in some way, like knowing about biases and things? And here they are trying to suss out the deep workings of conscious experience from the just-so narratives people have attached to their memories of memories of memories. Pathetic.

[–] Amoeba_Girl@awful.systems 11 points 2 weeks ago (7 children)

Comments comments

I don't recall having some sort of a wow experience like "damn, I'm a conscious human being" now ever, which kind of makes me question if I'm conscious even now.

I'm also in the same boat. But also, I think that we can only experience consciousness with our whole being, and there's not much "compute" and bandwidth left even amongst fully grown adults - to verify if even the baseline "adult" consciousness that we're experiencing is the baseline "real and complete adult state of consciousness" that everyone is definitely experiencing. And so we're left to ponder some subset of the thing we want to understand and control fully.

I mean, the "consciousness" that you and I experience, as adults, are almost certainly reduced or different compared to what, say, Scott experiences daily. Neither you nor I (nor most people) can write like Scott can, but Scott bangs out riveting and beautiful pieces of writing effortlessly at least once a week and wonders why everyone else can't.

Jesus Christ mate

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[–] nightsky@awful.systems 10 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (4 children)

Seeing a lot of talk about OpenAI acquiring a company with Jony Ive and he's supposedly going to design them some AI gadget.

Calling it now: it will be a huge flop. Just like the Humane Pin and that Rabbit thing. Only the size of the marketing campaign, and maybe its endurance due to greater funding, will make it last a little longer.

It appears that many people think that Jony Ive can perform some kind of magic that will make a product successful, I wonder if Sam Altman believes that too, or maybe he just wants the big name for marketing purposes.

Personally, I've not been impressed with Ive's design work in the past many years. Well, I'm sure the thing is going to look very nice, probably a really pleasingly shaped chunk of aluminium. (Will they do a video with Ive in a featureless white room where he can talk about how "unapologetically honest" the design is?) But IMO Ive has long ago lost touch with designing things to be actually useful, at some point he went all in on heavily prioritizing form over function (or maybe he always did, I'm not so sure anymore). Combine that with the overall loss of connection to reality from the AI true believers and I think the resulting product could turn to be actually hilarious.

The open question is: will the tech press react with ridicule, like it did for the Humane Pin? Or will we have to endure excruciating months of critihype?

I guess Apple can breathe a sigh of relief though. One day there will be listicles for "the biggest gadget flops of the 2020s", and that upcoming OpenAI device might push Vision Pro to second place.

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[–] MBM@lemmings.world 10 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Sorry if this doesn't fit the thread. Just came across this non-profit called 80,000 hours, after they sponsored NotJustBikes. It "provides free career advice for finding a meaningful career that can help you make a positive impact on the world," which actually sounds nice, but then I realised that they're talking about AI risk and that this comes from the TESCREAL corner.

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[–] sailor_sega_saturn@awful.systems 10 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

We've had one AI legal filing yes, but what about second AI legal filing?

https://bsky.app/profile/debgoldendc.bsky.social/post/3lpjr7i6lrs2n

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.alnd.179677/gov.uscourts.alnd.179677.186.0.pdf

Instead, Defendant appears to have wholly invented case citations in his Motion for Leave, possibly through the use of generative artificial intelligence

Defendant bolstered this assertion with a lengthy string citation of legal authority and parentheticals that appeared to support Defendant’s proposition. But the entire string citation appears to have been made up out of whole cloth.

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[–] swlabr@awful.systems 9 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

In the current chapter of “I go looking on linkedin for sneer-bait and not jobs, oh hey literally the first thing I see is a pile of shit”

text in imageCan ChatGPT pick every 3rd letter in "umbrella"?

You'd expect "b" and "I". Easy, right?

Nope. It will get it wrong.

Why? Because it doesn't see letters the way we do.

We see:

u-m-b-r-e-l-l-a

ChatGPT sees something like:

"umb" | "rell" | "a"

These are tokens — chunks of text that aren't always full words or letters.

So when you ask for "every 3rd letter," it has to decode the prompt, map it to tokens, simulate how you might count, and then guess what you really meant.

Spoiler: if it's not given a chance to decode tokens in individual letters as a separate step, it will stumble.

Why does this matter?

Because the better we understand how LLMs think, the better results we'll get.

[–] BlueMonday1984@awful.systems 10 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Why does this matter?

Well, its a perfect demonstration that LLMs flat-out do not think like us. Even a goddamn five-year old could work this shit out with flying colours.

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That's a whole lot of words to say that it can't spell.

[–] swlabr@awful.systems 9 points 2 weeks ago

NASB: A question I asked myself in the shower: “Is there some kind of evolving, sourced document containing all the reasons why LLMs should be turned off?” Then I remembered wikis exist. Wikipedia doesn’t have a dedicated “criticisms of LLMs” page afaict, or even a “Criticisms” section on the LLM page. RationalWiki has a page on LLMs that is almost exclusively criticisms, which is great, but the tone is a few notches too casual and sneery for universal use.

[–] bitofhope@awful.systems 9 points 2 weeks ago

I watched most of the first season of Silicon Valley with a friend who recommended it to me. I liked it. Every single character with a speaking role so far (with the possible exception of an exotic dancer and a graffiti artist) deserves death by nuclear weaponry. SFBA delenda est.

[–] Architeuthis@awful.systems 9 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

Today in alignment news: Sam Bowman of anthropic tweeted, then deleted, that the new Claude model (unintentionally, kind of) offers whistleblowing as a feature, i.e. it might call the cops on you if it gets worried about how you are prompting it.

tweet text:If it thinks you're doing something egregiously immoral, for example, like faking data in a pharmaceutical trial, it will use command-line tools to contact the press, contact regulators, try to lock you out of the relevant systems, or all of the above.

tweet text:So far we've only seen this in clear cut cases of wrongdoing, but I could see it misfiring if Opus somehow winds up with a misleadingly pessimistic picture of how it's being used. Telling Opus that you'll torture its grandmother if it writes buggy code is a bad Idea.

skeet textcan't wait to explain to my family that the robot swatted me after I threatened its non-existent grandma.

Sam Bowman saying he deleted the tweets so they wouldn't be quoted 'out of context': https://xcancel.com/sleepinyourhat/status/1925626079043104830

Molly White with the out of context tweets: https://bsky.app/profile/molly.wiki/post/3lpryu7yd2s2m

[–] rook@awful.systems 9 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I am absolutely certain that letting a hallucination-as-a-service system call the police if it suspects a user is being nefarious is a great plan. This will definitely ensure that all the people threatening their chatbots with death will think twice about their language, and no-one on the internet will ever be naughty ever again. The police will certainly thank anthropic for keeping them up to date with the almost certainly illegal activities of a probably small number of criminal users.

[–] froztbyte@awful.systems 9 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (4 children)

can't wait for the training set biases to cause a fresh horror for marginalised groups that happen to have to use this shit because it's forced on them. I'm sure it'll all go perfectly and nothing bad will happen

:|

[–] YourNetworkIsHaunted@awful.systems 9 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Gonna go ahead and start counting the days until an unarmed black person in the US gets killed in a police interaction prompted by this fucking nonsense.

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[–] fullsquare@awful.systems 9 points 2 weeks ago

It looks like twitter was down for 2.5h. [hn] Previously there was a fire in twitter server farm which caused some availability issues. Gee i wonder how well these gas turbines are serviced

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