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Democratic strategists, liberal pundits are making a living off doubting President Joe Biden's viability in the 2024 presidential election. Why?
Because they need it to be a horse race to get keep people's attention. They write those things because they get clicks and views and comments.
Notice how they're not writing about how our system is failing everyone by being this way. That's because they like the system this way because it keeps them on top.
If you think the system is failing us now, you must have been asleep from 2017 through 2020, especially for the part where unmarked, literally secret as in unknown, police came in and abducted people protesting the murder of a Black dude, and beat the shit out of them before releasing them. The system REALLY failed us then.
I get it. You think the Democrats don't represent your issues in the Congress. I don't agree with that, as a good half of the achievements listed here benefit the little guy in one way or another, but yeah. Biden answers to the moneyed class, and that is bipartisan. But you only get 26 out of 100 people in the room to flat out come out and say "Yeah, I'm with that guy," pointing to you. In the polls, you might net another 25 people, and 49 people vote for the R in this accursed D and R duopoly we call our government. But pay attention to those numbers. You can't afford to lose a lot of people. If Jill Stein picks off 3 of your 51 people, it's 49 Trump, 48 Biden, 3 Stein, and all 51 of the anti-Trump voters suffer with Trump. Those are the rules the game is played by.
As I said to the other person arguing that it's wrong to expect people to vote for people who don't give them exactly what they want, I agree. We need better choices. But there are smart ways to go about doing this, and dumb ways to go about doing it. And allowing the authoritarian jerk in isn't just a dumb way to go about doing it. It's a dumb and cruel way. And understand if you're a White Liberal choosing to vote Third Party or stay home and not vote Joe Biden the Genocidal Monster: you are benefiting from your White Privilege. You, like me, can keep your head down and pretend to be a Loyal Member of the Race, a Good American who pays your taxes and salutes the flag. You can scrub your Social Media posts and hide behind your anonymity on places like Lemmy, and go about your life. You will not be the first put into the cages by the Trump ICE. You will not be the first rounded up and deported to a foreign land with no citizenship. You will not be the first detained by the military during protests. Many, many people will pay the price for your privilege of voting third party or staying home because you won't vote for no 'genocider'. But remember two things First, you will have brought the genocide you say you oppose onto American shores. Second, once they are done with the migrants, the transgender people, the gays, the 'sinful' women protesting their rights to get a safe abortion, and so on, there'll be nobody left to protect you when they turn their attention to you.
Again. Biden ain't no bed of roses. But one of two people will win in 2024, just like one of two people would win in 2020, and one of two people would win in 2016. I consider you all who voted Stein or Johnson in 2016 or stayed home in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania to be responsible for what Trump did in 2017 through 2020, and if Trump wins in 2024, I'll hold you all accountable for what happens in 2025 and beyond.
tl;dr - The system is broken but we still have to pretend it isn't because otherwise its brokenness will allow terrible things to happen and the people who do those things will face no repercussions.
tl;dr - The system is broken but we still have to pretend it isn’t because otherwise its brokenness will allow terrible things to happen and the people who do those things will face no repercussions.
No, you can either use the broken system and try to minimize the damage done (by voting for Biden) or you can stomp your feet and refuse to use the system by not voting, or voting 3rd party, and in doing so allowing Trump to get reelected which will do great harm to you and everyone else who isn't named Trump. It's really a simple choice. Meanwhile, work to change the system. Join your local political party and support progressive candidates who also want to change the system. Hell, run for local office yourself and fight to change the system.
You have a an angry bear charging at you your family and there's no where to run. All you have is a dull knife. Do you try and fight off the bear or do you throw up your hands and scream it's not fair while the bear kills your family?
And the Democratic Party needs to pull its head out of its ass and embrace its base, rather than smugly scheme in ways that are ruining lives.
I have no problem with Biden’s job as president. In fact, I got into a big argument with someone a few weeks ago because they keep parroting anti-Biden propaganda from astroturfed pro-Palestine social media groups.
Biden has been doing a great job for the most part, on a number of fronts.
But I’m sort of bittersweet on that, because the harder I look, the more I see the illusion of choice, and an intentional effort to barely keep up with the will of the people.
2016, Bernie vs Clinton. He had the votes, but the party pulled some superdelegate shenanigans to give it to Clinton. And with the same confidence of someone who had just been handed a layup in the primary, she managed to smugly fumble the presidency by a tiny margin.
Post 2020 - Democrats had a majority, and instead of doing things the populous wanted, they wrung their hands about two candidates the Democratic Party had helped elect - Sinema and Manchin - and whether or not they were going to block bills.
The other day I did a deep dive into Elissa Slotkin - a candidate so unlikeable she had to move to a much more certain democratic district when districts were redrawn. When the senate seat came up, the Democratic Party cut deals with more liberal candidates who are vastly more likable, to get them to not run in the primary. So now Michigan is going to wind up with an unwanted centrist that used to be an ‘analyst’ for the CIA during the Iraq war. She’s going to pretend to be a democrat while being the same sort of heel the Sinema or Manchin was.
That’s just the people. In their post 2020-majority they could have done so much legislatively that they didn’t even bother considering - like campaign finance reform or expanding the courts, or even changing the rules around judicial nominees to prevent future shenanigans, but that would impact their bottom line or their ability to inspire panic at election-time. They could have strengthened the ACA, but that hurts some of the corporations that donate to them. Or do things to help people so that their rights wouldn’t be at risk - like codifying Roe, instead of allowing it to continue to be a wedge issue that destroys lives, but gets people to vote.
The Democratic (and Republican) Party is playing us all.
I’m not disaffected with Biden. I’m disaffected with a political party that nakedly fucks around to preserve the status quo, rather than embracing their base and winning with an encouraged and engaged populous. They lack the mandate to lead because they only desire to govern. (In contrast to the Republicans which lack the mandate to lead, are unable to govern, and only desire power and to abuse the government for personal gain.)
So go ahead, give me the downvotes.
This wouldn’t be an issue if we had ranked choice and a coalition government instead of this ‘winner take all’ nonsense that just incentivizes entrenchment rather than inspiration. But, you know, that doesn’t help the businesses that are political parties, so they ain’t gonna vote on it.
You make valid points and we ultimately agree that we should change our voting system. But that happens from the ground up, voting for a third party in the presidential election does nothing.
What are they going to do? "Oh no, people are unhappy with the two parties...well we better dilute our power and give them ranked voting."
Never going to happen. But you can work locally to get the changes and encourage that elsewhere. Voting third party is worse than slacktavism, as it's both pointless and counter productive.
Don't try to play the game you want to be playing, play the one you're currently playing.
Circling back - I initially did not respond because I thought that my response would be caustic and catty.
It seemed that the first two paragraphs you wrote were in response to me, but the rest were just the same canned responses that get shared with everyone who throws out a ‘voting is pointless’ message. And that’s not really my stance, or my comment. It kind of upset me, so I felt that I couldn’t have responded politely at the time.
It is a reasonable conclusion to draw from my statements, but I don’t believe people should refrain from voting. I just believe political parties should deliver on their promises, and if they don’t deliver, then they should stop making those promises, or make way for parties that do.
What are they going to do? "Oh no, people are unhappy with the two parties...well we better dilute our power and give them ranked voting."
Yes.
It’s not ‘the norm’ as far as beliefs go, but I do kind of think that should be exactly what they do. They are here to lead and govern. That is what public service is. It is service to the public.
If they behave in protectionist ways for the sake of their party’s over the public interest, then they lack the mandate to represent the public.
Leadership is sometimes sacrificing the power of your party for the good of the people. But that’s also irrelevant as an argument. If democrats represent the ideals they claim to represent, then next time they have a trifecta, they should move towards expanding democracy at a federal level, rather than leaving it to states. Leaving it at the state level guarantees the sort of gridlock that holds back local organizing - only certain kinds of ballot initiatives are even seriously considered at a state level because it’ll harm that state’s power on the national stage. In terms of ideology, more U.S. citizens align with democrats than republicans (but huge numbers of left leaning folks don’t vote due to lack of representation). Their political aims would see more progress with a better represented (and presumably more engaged) populous in a coalition government where their ideas can enjoy broader support.
But they don’t run on ideas or by providing better governance. They’re a business that relies on laws and marketing campaigns to succeed in a given ‘business cycle.’
Yes.
You missed the point: It is a rhetorical question. Of course they aren't going to do that. It's not how it works. These people got into power that way, and there is no way in a representative democracy that you are going to get enough of the reps who gained the power a certain way to give up that way. You are arguing what they should do, and I agree with you. But the problem is that focusing on that is just blind idealism. I'm pointing out the dirty reality of how politics works.
And this assault on "well washington democrats aren't idealistic do-gooders!" is just a counter productive position (unless you want Reps to win instead). They are humans who have human faults, and primarily made up of people who have sought out the power, so a lot of those faults are going to be amplified.
But that's the game we have right now. Ranked choice is great, but it ain't going to come from people wringing their hands over "Well, washington democrats with their slim majority weren't able to force through sweeping changes that some of their members don't even agree with!" It's going to come from getting your hands dirty locally.
It's super easy to be like "I don't like either party." Good for you. I've known plenty of edgy 14 year olds who have been able to "reason" themselves to this same conclusion. But nothing you propose is realistic or will solve it.
In their post 2020-majority they could have done so much legislatively that they didn’t even bother considering - like campaign finance reform or expanding the courts, or even changing the rules around judicial nominees to prevent future shenanigans, but that would impact their bottom line or their ability to inspire panic at election-time.
This conspiracy theory is so weird.
How exactly are legislative Democrats supposed to accomplish these things when their bare-bones Senate majority depends on Manchin and Sinema? I mean really, specifically, how are they supposed to get things done?
Y'all are always like "they should do more" but you won't give them the numbers to do it. In a 60/40 Senate we can make wonderful things happen, but you just won't give it to us.
When the Democratic Party did have a 60-40 in 2009 they did not act. Where they did they self imposed compromises with the GOP or simply didn't pass legislation they ran on. For example: codifying Roe v Wade with Freedom of Choice Act went from Obama's alleged first sct in office to "not a top priority." Then they got annihilated in 2010.
We know from precedent that when Democrats are elected there is no indication they will even promote what they or the party ran on.
Recent example: John Fetterman. Ran as a progressive, immediately said he wasn't progressive once in office and now pushing for right wing immigration laws.
Republicans get what they vote for. Democrats do not. Which is why these threads are so ignorant and frustrsting to read.
They had a 60-40 majority for only a few months, and they passed a massive expansion of healthcare that has saved thousands of lives and lifted countless people out of poverty. And that's after Republicans gutted it by killing the individual mandate.
these threads are so ignorant and frustrsting to read.
At least we agree on one thing. But you're the one spreading the ignorance.
The key word in the title is Democrats. Leave those of us that are not Democrats or Republicans out of the conversation.
Hey, pal, I didn't write the headline, so don't give me crap about it. But here's a fact you miss with your "not democrat or republican" nonsense. Do you claim to care about Non-Christian, Gay, Transgender, or Minority people? Then you must vote for the Democrat. Because come November, one of two parties will win the election. That's just how the American system is designed currently, and it's going to take LOTS of hard work to fix it, and there are gonna be LOTS of people who will fight you tooth and nail to stop that from happening. But until it happens, either a Democrat or a Republican will win that seat, like one has every year from 1860 until the present. That's even more likely if the only time you're pushing for an alternative is during the General Election and not, say, during the Primary or for local elections.
And to remind you, the two men who have a lock on that office in January consist of:
One of those two will be in office come January. Nobody else. Your third party or no-vote won't change that. If you stay home or vote third party in 2025, you should be fucking ashamed of yourself if you even begin to think you're a friend to any of the issues the Left stands for.
I'll start with democrats are not left. They are to the right of people like Reagan and Nixon. Your party doesn't give a fuck about Non-Christian, Gay, Transgender, or Minority people either, talking like they do then doing nothing to protect them makes them no different than their Republican counterparts. Using marginalized people as human shields to defend shitty politicians and their shitty policies doesn't make you an ally, it makes you an enemy of their progress and keeps them further subjugated.
Cant change a system if no one has the balls to actually challenge it and refuse to keep propping it up.
Biden is currently pulling us into World War 3 by supporting Genocide. He is actively pushing for Republican style immigration laws.
At this point there is no difference between Biden or Trump.
If you think Trump is going to stop Israel from killing Palestinians or make immigration easier for brown people, you are very mistaken.
Sooooo is Biden doing any of those things?
???
Trump would be focused on destroying our institutions rather than other countries. There is definitely a difference.
Would you rather have the mass murder millions of innocent brown people in foreign countries than have negative consequences for the precious white Americans?
Well, the problem is it isn’t “either/or.” It’s “both or just one.”
Trump will be worse for Palestine, believe it or not. I mean, that isn’t hard to believe, it’s just hard to swallow that those are the choices. But it’s the one we’re stuck with.
Oh that is simply not true. Trump CAN'T be worse for Palestine.
Biden has done every single thing Netanyahu asked him to. After six months of Genocide there are still not a single weapons restriction and Biden is rushing as many weapons as he can to israel. And Biden condones every single one of the Genocidal war crimes openly. And vetoes any condemnation of israel.
The worst Trump can do is the same as Biden.
That’s a naive thing to think. Beyond naive.
Biden is actually kind of concerned with trying to appear like he cares. He kinda has to. It’s for selfish reasons, of course, he is still a politician. But Democratic voters aren’t just rank-n-file voters like republicans. And they’re not all wanting the most cruel thing to happen. Republicans voters almost universally are.
The US supports Israel. Like, the country. The machinery. Not Biden or trump or even Bernie, in that hypothetical situation. It’s a massive moneyed machine that probably just one dude couldn’t decide to stop—even if that person were president.
I’d vote for another country too, for another order, if I could. But we can’t. You’re voting for genocide or genocide. But one of those genocides comes with a slew of other problems for vulnerable communities at home. And that same one comes with a petulant fascist with harm on the brain and a rabid fan base wanting to tear trans people limb from limb and stick women back in the 1940s and just open up he earth and suck out whatever regardless of the consequences. We have minutes until midnight on the climate emergency. Even a slow descent into turmoil is better than throwing everything we can into the fires.
Being a one-issue voter, especially in 2024, is so incredibly shortsighted and…I’m sorry, but selfish. You’re willing to throw MORE Palestinians, trans people, women, the environment all into the shitpile for, I’m sorry, your personal sense of purity.
We all get it, what is happening in Palestine is beyond horrifying. It’s genocide. No argument, there. But even a president who has to make a few speeches and small demands on how Israel is “starting to concern” or whatever gestures Biden has to make for optics, is better than a vindictive, bloodthirsty bigot who will, believe it or not, be more cruel if and when he can. That shouldn’t be hard to believe, but it is hard to wrap your head around when the topic is supporting genocide.
Dude what? Even past hardcore Republicans like George Bush have been far stronger against israel than Biden.
This utter delusion that Biden can't do anything to stop israel is some Blue Maga mental gymnastics.
Biden is ideologically motivated to support this Genocide. He is willing to throw away the entire election for it.
There is literally a video of Trump bragging to random Jews in Mar a Lago that he got them more Palestinian land during his presidency. Trump's only criticisms have been delusions that "October 7th wouldn't have happened because Hamas wouldn't dare piss me off" and telling Israelis "You guys have to fix the optics of what you're doing because you are losing public support." He doesn't give a fuck about the genocide - he just wants it done more quietly so fewer people notice and get upset.
Trump would be more inclined to escalate.
In fact, Trump has said Israel should escalate. I believe the phrase he used was "finish the job".
Trump says Israel has to get war in Gaza over ‘fast’ and warns it is ‘losing the PR war’
“Get it over with and let’s get back to peace and stop killing people. And that’s a very simple statement,” Trump said. “They have to get it done. Get it over with and get it over with fast because we have to -- you have to get back to normalcy and peace.”
“They’re releasing the most heinous, most horrible tapes of buildings falling down. And people are imagining there’s a lot of people in those buildings, or people in those buildings, and they don’t like it,” he added. “They’re losing the PR war. They’re losing it big. But they’ve got to finish what they started, and they’ve got to finish it fast, and we have to get on with life.”
It's interesting that you read something different in that. Trump says that they need to hurry up and finish what they started. That's not a good thing.
It's interesting that you took the out of context quote you saw on a random lib outlet and do the same thing conservatives do when they repeat whatever out of context BS they hear Biden say on Fox News. Repeat it without ever looking at the context. Literally two sides of the same coin.
This was one of the weird moments Trump didn't bow down to Netanyahu.
A similar moment was when every lib propaganda paper quoted Trump saying "It's gonna be a bloodbath if Biden wins". Really gets the libs scared enough to keep voting for Genocide. Until you read the actual quote where Trump is talking about the car industry.
But hey. I debunked disinformation about orange man. Which now must mean I am a Russian troll and I must looooove Trump.
It's really scary to me, as a trans person with many trans friends, how eager much of the far left is to write us off as sacrifices. I guess my life doesn't matter to you because I'm a "precious white American" (and this disingenuous horseshit totally ignores the fact that POC trans Americans will undoubtedly be the most affected).
But hey, at least I can feel as I draw my last tortured breaths in a christo-fascist deathcamp some solace in knowing that online tankies got to feel satisfaction in helping punish Biden by helping elect an honest-to-god fascist.
Rather condone the Genocide of millions of innocents than advocate for change you would prefer not taking any risk and having them certainly murdered with support of the Biden regime?
It's pretty astounding to me that people do not consider Biden a Christo-Fascist yet. As he as actively trying to reach some Christian Zionist goals
Jezuz fuck, having a black-and-white worldview must be so freeing; not having to clutter your beautiful mind with things like FUCKING COMPLEXITY
What do you think about the Nazi's? Do you know who won the German election in 1933? What about the Spanish civil war? Surely you don't have a black and white opinion on the Nazi's like just saying "they are evil for committing Genocide" right?
Godwin'd in 1.
Committing Genocide does tend to shorten the line to Hitler comparisons.
I’ll be one of the first to admit, I don’t like Biden. But, if you need to be convinced that he’s better than Trump, you’re an absolute buffoon!! Trump is worse than the shit you stepped on, on your walk. Trump is the worst thing to ever happen to the American presidency. He’s the closest we’ll get to Adolf Hitler and he relishes in that. He thinks it makes him “a bad boy” or someone moving against the curve…and he’s right, he’s moving against the curve. He’s moving against it in 4 straight lines that will bend consecutively in 90° angles to the right. My point is, TRUMP IS NAZI SCUM WHO’S WORSE THAN THE SHIT ON YOUR HEEL
Biden is actively supporting Nazi style Genocide right now.
But not the figurative one. Literal Nazi Genocide.
And you think Trump would be doing…what, exactly? Let’s not forget Trump Heights
Democrats should get over themselves and push through ranked choice voting in each state they control. Republicans gaining control of the nation is a existential threat, and we should be using every tool to keep them out. This means getting rid of FPTP voting and the spoiler effect inherent in it.
OP, you seem very concerned with how people vote. Have you worked to start an electoral reform campaign in your state? you can entirely solve the spoiler effect that you're concerned with! What are you waiting for?
They would never do that. Then you wouldn't vote Democrat anymore.