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Hospitals should be able to refuse patients who get diseases that are preventable with vaccines. Problem solved.
No. For multiple reasons:
I could probably keep going, but hopefully you get the idea why that's just not a viable approach.
Everybody who gets vaccinated is documented as having gotten vaccinated, no?
So why can't hospitals check the record and confirm that patients have been vaccinated? If they have, then everything's fine. If they couldn't get vaccinated for legitimate reasons, that'd be documented too.
The point is to ensure as many people are vaccinated as possible, not to prove a point about the efficacy of vaccines.
That said, I dislike the idea of healthcare being able to pick and choose, for any reason, not to treat someone. Then again I live in a sane country with free healthcare.
This is exactly the problem. Once you start talking about who does and does not deserve healthcare, you've gone to a place I refuse to follow. There is far too much nuance to start drawing lines in the sand.
If they have the vaccine and it doesn’t work, then fine. But if they refuse it without being one of the small groups of people with a diagnosed and documented reason to not get it, then they should stay home and tough it out.
It's such a bizarrely American view to restrict people's access to healthcare... I guess the US will never get free healthcare if healthcare is still seen as a privilege and not a right.
It has a lot to do with people being so loud about their opinions, and trying to force those opinions onto others. Then, becoming victims of their own stupidity and infecting others. It’s mentally exhausting to the point where the only thing that I want is leopards eating faces.
Nah, you just made that up
Which part? The part where your wife told you she was allergic based on zero actual evidence and when you got pressed on it you panicked and resorted to expletives?
🤡
That's unfortunately an extremely slippery slope.
If vaccines (or lack thereof) are enough to refuse "service", why treat lung cancer in smokers? What about type 2 diabetes?
Sure, those too. They can sue big tobacco and big sugar for the money to pay for those treatments.
According to this study, smoking costs our economy ~0.88% of our GDP. That works out to in the ballpark of $600 per capita. Would you change your opinion if you had $600 sitting in front of you? I disagree that it's a slippery slope, anti-vax, smokers, and overeaters cost a lot of money, and the rest of us foot the bill.
One of my children is not vaccinated against measles. In addition, although she is vaccinated against whooping cough, she in fact has had whooping cough. I talk about it a lot. You see my child has a compromised immune system and the measles vaccine is a live vaccine so giving her that vaccine could in fact kill her. And the dead vaccines are not terribly effective for her. The end result is I am very pro-vaccine because I rely on other people's vaccines to keep my child safe. But when a policy is put in place to deny those who are not vaccinated, it affects children like mine who simply can't be vaccinated. You can say well, those with medical exemptions can still get treatment. Except as soon as there's a medical exemption, all the anti-vaccine people jump in and claim a medical exemption, and then no one believes medical exemptions and children like mine are at risk. Even worse, some doctors may refuse to give medical exemptions thinking that everybody is lying in order to get an exemption.
Children do not choose whether or not to be vaccinated. So are you not going to treat an innocent 2-year-old because their parents are idiots? Do we put toddlers to death for the sins of their parents?
What about a family who can't vaccinate their 2-year-old because the grandmother lives with them and is immunocompromised once again measles is a live vaccine and you are not supposed to have it if anyone in the house is immunocompromised. So the child certainly can receive the vaccine and would not qualify for an exemption but it would endanger another person in the family.
The question is where do we draw the line? Who do we let die for poor choices? Just those who make the choices? Or their family members? What do we consider a poor choice? Is not vaccinating your child if it could kill your parent a poor choice? It's a hard choice, but is it a poor choice? I'd rather not play God and have absolutes.
I would love to see vaccine mandates put in place with all children required to get a vaccine unless a doctor says otherwise and leave that on the doctor's shoulders to make medical decisions. What I would not like to see is life and death decisions made based on our judgment call of whether someone is smart, or has made smart choices.
You might as well argue that healthy people are a drag since care in old age is so expensive.
See, I'm German. We have a solidarity based health insurance (mostly). I'm a young, reasonably healthy guy with a reasonably high income. All in all I pay 840€ every month (that's the maximum amount), even though I cost next to nothing. And I'm okay with that.
Yes, smoking is bad and I don't like smokers. But denying them healthcare is deeply deeply inhumane. And in Germany even unconstitutional.
And what about my wife? She's allergic to the measles vaccination.
That seems different than a refusal, no? That seems more like a medical incompatibility.
People use bullshit excuses all the time to avoid getting their kids vaccinated, including "allergies".
"Allergies" are medically provable. Bullshit reasons are stuff like "sky daddy told me I don't hafta" and "the govmint can't 5g me"
That is certainly one extreme.
That’s a contrarian question, of course there would be loopholes for that.
I assume it would be documented and considered an exception
She lost the documentation years ago. We're almost 40.
You can either get the documentation reprinted, or get tested, no?
Yes, but it's just another thing on the pile of shit we're dealing with right now. The fact that she is a woman already doesn't bode well. We're just glad that we're both sterilized, all things considered...
Prove it
And that right there is why your argument is complete bullshit.
How does she know?
Go fuck yourself.
Yeah, exactly. You’re making it up.
I got nothing to prove to you, asswipe. It's people like you that makes it difficult for others to be taken seriously at the doctor's office. Fuck off and die.
🏆
Then she is also allergic to measles, because all it is is weakened measles itself.
Yes, it's a shit situation.
Hospitals should be able to refuse RFK Jr and his immediate family.
Can’t argue with that.
They perhaps don't need to. The staff in hospitals only got a few token coins as reward for the previous pandemic, and didn't get much raise or better working conditions since then. People are already walking away because overworked and underpaid. It's likely a lot of them just quit when a new pandemic would start and the hospitals can barely function.
Nurses at the hospital my spouse works for get like 160k for a regular floor nurse working a day time shift. So, I dunno about them being paid “tokens” whomever told you that probably isn’t a nurse. Of course, the rate varies by city. Do they still have nurses in red states?
nurses can earn bank depending where they are, travelling nurses can make bank from what ive heard. i think doctors can make alot in some red states, depending on the specialty.
Travel nurses during Covid made unbelievable bank. I know one nurse who was working the system and pulled in almost 500k for two years by manipulating the overtime system. I can’t blame them, they are totally oblivious at the system level and definitely don’t promote talented managers.
It’s funny when I hear all that nonsense about nurses not making money, since I’m so close to it and know better. Sure, some places pay crap, but most metropolitan areas pay out big—or have ways to work it. The hospital I know the most about also is considered the worst in the state. It’s actually got a reputation where people go to die. There are so many deaths on the floor and no one does anything about it. Totally preventable too. Wrong meds, skipped meds, patients being ignored or totally forgotten. It’s a fucking mess.
i heard doctors made over a 1mill+ just flying into a desolate red area that drove all its doctor, he only needed to be there like 3 times a week.
nurses make as much as doctors, and even more in some cases. it made sense when i was in a retail job had a recently hired with me shopper, said he wanted to be a nurse. that last part, seems more like negligence and mismangment by the hospital or network. It was wierd how the nurse that has been in the news charged for someone elses death was in fact the hospitals fault for not staffing more nurses. i tried to get the CLS(for hospitals) but i found out required a grad school certification which i dont qualify, and i heard they made decent money 100k+, definitely not nurse level income though. instead i tried to pursue biotech.
Bullshit, you made that up
apparently its more contagious than most viruses, they will probably to try to prevent them from going into the hospital
They’ll definitely want to put them in no contact rooms, but it’s not like those rooms are plentiful.
and ANti-maskers, distance, and vaxxer will throw a huge fit and fight the staff, like they did with covid, causing many to leave the industry.
I’ve actually met more anti-vax nurses than anti-vax non-nurses. Had one who was wearing a mask complain about being forced to wear a mask because she had not been vaccinated for ANYTHING! Jfc. I’m sure this is not the majority, but it’s pretty shocking how many medical professionals know squat about medicine.
i forgot how many nurses slip through the cracks. some areas, red states will waive certain parts of becoming a nurse because its such a big shortage, while others have more stringent regulations. nurses are the ones that assume they know everything because they got a a nursing degree.
It got pretty crazy when Covid hit and they just shoved nurses through the program. A lot of them got out and immediately made Covid bank, didn’t have to work, and are now freaking out that pay has gone back to normal, and people now have time to audit their performance. It is a pretty shitty situation for them though, hardly any of them got trained on the things they never got to learn in school. I heard one nurse managed to go two solid years without having to do an IV cause they never learned.