this post was submitted on 27 Mar 2025
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All EV vehicles are spying. Teslas are rolling cameras with central cloud storage and Volkswagen was busted recently for leaking all locations of their cars. We shouldn't label that as "Chinese spy-EVs", but should enforce the GDPR for all cars
Automotive Grade Linux project is going to become way more important in time
Software is like encryption. you can't trust it if it's not auditable.
Well yeah but Automotive Grade Linux is open source fully (unless there is soemthing I didnt know as far I know) and is auditable
At this point, all Vehicles are spying. It's not exclusive for EVs. Anything built in the last ~15-20 years have exactly the same sensors, regardless of the engine technology.
While I agree that it's not exclusive to EVs, I'm pretty sure it was not as bad 15 years ago. For example my Toyota Yaris from 2010 certainly cannot transmit to the outside world (even Bluetooth was an extra back then).
This is a horrible take. VW are diligent in following GDPR and as an owner (yes, I am) you are constantly asked for exactly which permissions you want to give what service.
They had a misconfigured S3 instance. While bad, that's not intentional - but you're comparing it to "At Tesla we wank to your in-car video feed" and "BYD spies for the Chinese government" which is just a whole different thing.
"I'd like the variant without a SIM card please."
I'm currently fighting with Toyota over that very issue. I told them I want a new RAV4 Prime without the sim installed.
That's against EU regulation, as new cars must include an SOS assistance button. (Granted, many car manufacturers hide multiple SIM cards in their vehicles now. Or they use the existing SIM card for navigation, music, analytics, GBs of software updates ... and emergency assistance.)
Fair, that's technically a SIM, but as you yourself noted, it's not the one used by the manufacturer.
Maybe I should phrase it another way:
"Dear manufacturer, I'd like my business relationship with you to end after the purchase of this car. I will contact you if I need anything else, be it navigation, music, analytics, or updates. You will not contact me."
Don't buy features you don't want.
Well yes, that's what I was saying. Are you saying a VW vendor will not only sell me a car without any non-mandated communication modules but also give me a better price for it because it amounts to the car having fewer features? That's actually good news.
hugs
You can't buy a car that had its model registration in the EU after 2019 in the EU that hasn't a SIM Card installed as it is part of an EU legislation.
Yeah, that was the point. When you require the world to serve your special needs expect to have to go to quite some lengths to get them.
Misconfigured to the point that all the data was collected, centrally stored and then accessible from the outside. These are at least two misconfiguration and one mayor architecture issue (central storage).
I think your view on what happened is based on media headlines rather than the actual technical facts.
https://soundofdevelopment.substack.com/p/volkswagen-data-leak-location-tracking
That is the major configuration problem that got the data accesible
That is the first configuration problem, to collect this data in the first place and then to collect it down to this level of precision.
This remains with the major architectural problem.
All this data is stored in one place. Leaving aside the discussion of whether this data should be collected in the first place, there would be a strong reason to separate the data supposedly collected for technical analysis from the data that identifies who owns the car. Of course in the case of location data down to 10cm accuracy that is a bit moot as you can get the home address easily from the location data.
Please let me know if there was something i missed regarding my assessment of two configuration problems and one architectural problem.
Yeah, you missed how this is absolutely nothing like "we wank to you in-car videofeed"-Tesla and "we spy for the Chinese government"-BYD
A security hole exposing data that the users have agreed to share is nothing like companies willfully breaking user integrity.
You know this of course, you just don't like being corrected.