this post was submitted on 28 Jun 2025
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We live in a world where there are animals that take the place of other animals' tongue; where insects farm other insects; where parasites live in the skin of animals and different animals eat them, forming a symbiotic relationship; where predators often kill for fun.
Normal is the right word.
Ok that’s a solid rebuttal around the “is it normal” argument. I’m personally still of the mindset that it’s “normal but wrong”. I wish we’d stop using normal to mean “good” and stick with it meaning “popular”. Statistics!
Well I fully agree that virtually all modern animal farming is cruel and should be reformed, yet I don't think Veganism is the only answer.
And of course Vegans shouting "YOU! Stop eating meat NOW, you monster!", only manages to make people LESS likely to do that.
Veganism definitely has terrible PR. But we also have to be wary of cherry picking the extremists from a movement as representatives of the whole.
I’d like to be 100% vegan, I’m not but I try. We started with weekday vegetarianism and went from there. Moderation is absolutely effective, IMO.
Normal, natural and necessary are the three N's of Carnism. Also:
Vegan Bullshit Bingo #1:
Lions eat meat too
Vegan Bullshit Bingo #54
Well, humans just are on top of the food chain.
Lol I think we'd need a whole discussion on philosophy and psychology to correctly address these points, and I doubt either of us is qualified enough.
Projecting human morality on animals is... Funny, as our higher empathy is essentially a social animal's trait that helps its group survive. Extending it to the whole universe is surely possible but who are we to say whether it's correct or not? We can only evaluate measurable effects, such as those on our ecosystem.
Regardless, I never wanted to start a discussion on veganism, I don't approve of current farming methods anyway, just pointing out that your definition of normal was wrong.
I think it's not that complicated. There is this quote from Jeremy Bentham:
Which they obviously can, right? Watch the videos.
Now let's not focus on them but on us, that's easier: We are at a point in history where we (you and me) don't need to kill animals anymore to survive. It is even harming us, clocking our arteries, destroying ecosystems. We live in a society where you can go buy plant-based alternatives that are cheaper and healthier, processed stuff like schnitzel and sausages, but also notorious superfoods like lentils and tofu. Happy Eat your Beans-day, by the way.
So we could solve like a quarter of the climate catastrophe, save millions on health care (I'm European) and human lifes by ditching saturated fat, slow down or even prevent further antibiotic resistance and free billions of sentient beings from short miserable lifes. But most of us choose not to, because they're accustomed to a taste.