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85% Of Car Drivers Break 20mph Speed Limits, Reveals U.K.’s Department For Transport
(www.forbes.com)
this post was submitted on 24 Aug 2023
295 points (93.3% liked)
Fuck Cars
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I can't get behind property seizure without compensation, but I can understand everything else.
Even if they said "you can't have this car any more, but can sell it from our facility" that'd be better I think
Normally me neither, bit in this context where you are driving so recklessly you are endangering everyone else and we are talking over double the speed limit I'll allow it. Noone has any rights left when you are doing that kind of stuff deliberately.
@TDCN @GBU_28 i’m genuinely missing how the state keeping the car versus giving it back to the leasing agency is a reasonable choice. Why does the owner of the car, if it is not the violator, get to get fucked by this?
As I wrote to someone else my reasoning is this. It puts the responsibility into the hands of the car owner. Just replace the word car with gun and it all sounds reasonable. If I just lend my gun to a friend who I only know very little or I have never seen hold a gun in his hand that would be very bad. Or if a company leases big guns that are super dangerous. Even if he has a license for guns. And if he shot someone or broke the law in other ways with the gun I’d only expect the gun to be confiscated regardless of who owns it.
@TDCN @jbsegal
And are the owners changing the contracts so the driver has to compensate the owner in case of confirmation?
@jbsegal @TDCN @GBU_28 The owner can sue the driver for compensation.
@jbsegal @TDCN @GBU_28 they have to demand compensation from the driver
In effect, is it really that different to a fine? It seems to have a couple of advantages, though: it's easier to collect, and it's proportional, so a person who can afford a fancy luxury car pays more than someone in an old banger, without the complexity of having to evaluate their income and savings.
This is exactly the reason they are doing it. Proportional to income and the car is completely and physically removed from the road. There was a big issue here where the offender would just drive without license or the car was leased or borrowed so there was no real penalty. Now the leasing company would have to take responsibility for leasing fancy supercars to anyone and everyone and people lending their car to a known drunk or fast driver would definitely think twice.
@TDCN
That part is all good. The problem is they don't care whose car it is. If I was to borrow your car, and then break this law, then YOU are out a car. Yes, you can try and get the money back from me, but that might take a decade if I don't have money to replace your car.
If you ask me, that's crazy.
Well I agree it might be a bit crazy, but I also must admit that I like the law because it works and it makes it such that I don't want to lend my car out to anyone unless I know for sure how they drive by driving with them a few times. It puts the responsibility into the hands of the car owner. Just replace the word car with gun and it all sounds reasonable. If I just lend my gun to a friend who I only know very little or I have never seen hold a gun in his hand that would be very bad. Even if he has a license for guns. And if he shot someone or broke the law in other ways with the gun I'd only expect the gun to be confiscated regardless of who owns it.
@TDCN @joland replacing car with gun or riffle makes it even more absurd. You saying that if I lend a riffle to someone on a hunt, I should bear the consequences for their actions if they miss and hit something? Thankfully the law in rest of Scandinavia isn’t as insane…
There's a significant difference between an accident and deliberately being wrekless
@TDCN There is nothing about being “wreckless” when borrowing something to someone else. If person has a valid driving license that is all that matters. We ain’t even taking about lending a car to a obviously drunk idiot which is punishable.
But the law will definitely make me think twice before lending my car to anyone.
@TDCN @joland here in the Netherlands the fine for a traffic violation is already up to the owner to sort out. They don’t give AF who drove the car. Your car. Your responsibility. Your problem.
I like that actually
@sheean @TDCN @joland Except it's not proportional to one's income. I lived in Denmark and I like how they do things quite a bit better.
@joland @TDCN it's the same as if you crash a borrowed car while doing something that invalidates the insurance, eg racing.
@joland @TDCN yeah but if you borrow your car to someone they could also just total it in an accident and die, and in that case they also won't be able to give it back to you and you definitely won't get paid for the car.
This is just one more reason to not borrow your car to people you don't trust 100%.
@TDCN @threedaymonk exemption for stolen cars?
@sldrant @TDCN @threedaymonk yes. Stolen cars are returned to the owner, not confiscated.
@GBU_28 @TDCN In Australia we have a law that lets the police make you watch while they crush your car.
@jessta @GBU_28 @TDCN 😱😱😱
@jessta @GBU_28 @TDCN is it public? can i come and laugh at them?
@yetzt
They often post it to fb/youtube
@jessta @GBU_28 @TDCN
As long as it then goes swiftly through the court system to confirm this. Otherwise it is theft, like US asset forfeiture.
@GBU_28 @TDCN Think of the car as a "dual use" item - i.e. you can use it as transport or to (potentially) get other people injured or killed.
The law aims at the second (mis)use. Even though I'm a car-loving German I really second that part of the Danish law and I honestly wish we would have something similar.
@GBU_28 @TDCN it’s not a property issue. They are removing a weapon. Like they do it with guns used for committing a crime.
@GBU_28
We often have the discussion whether it is an instrument for murder.
So going insanely fast, often within city limits, is considered in comparison to planned homocide.
So why should they hand out the potential weapon, just because you missed someone?
Furthermore we have issues of companies renting out overly powerful cars, so some tourists can go crazy on our autobahn in a Ferrari.
IMHO this business model is insane and this is a valid way to stop it.
Would love this in De.
@TDCN
@GBU_28 @TDCN, really??
You happily can endanger other people's lives but can't have your means to do so taken away?
Same for CEOs of companies going bankrupt: you can take away others livelihood by your decisions but nobody can touch your hording.
That sounds like rich person's privilege syndrome!
@GBU_28 @TDCN Yes, but in this case it is rather an illegally owned weapon than a car we are talking about.
@GBU_28 play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Driving a car is not a right. Especially in Denmark where public transport is an perfectly viable alternative for most of the population.
@GBU_28 @TDCN
If leasing companies face no loss, they can continue to lease supercars to morons.
Why are you @'ing everyone? You replied, we will see it.
Leases are not ownership