this post was submitted on 15 Jul 2023
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What the actual fuck⁈ “Batteries can catch on fire.” Sure, whatever could go wrong with a 1000l tank of FUCKING GASOLINE.
AAAaaaaHHhh I hate people!
Going with the “batteries catch on fire argument” is stupid. “Batteries are heavy and expensive” is probably more compelling. But yeah, wires are better solution for things going in fixed routes.
Yup batteries are not the way. By the time the batteries need to be replaced you might have helped slightly but probably not. Batteries is a illusion to going green right now. Just another product that has a demand and an easy market for it.
I think we're all aware of the costs associated with recycling batteries.
Are you aware of the costs associated with high CO2 levels?
Have to choose the lesser of two evils.
What would be a better alternative if you exclude the use of fossil fuels?
fixed overhead wires, as OP suggested?
You’re aware that diesel is quite hard to catch on fire
That's why he said gasoline tho
But that’s not relevant for busses
No it's not. It's harder to catch fire than gasoline.
It still catches fire easily.
You can toss a lit match into a puddle of diesel and the match will go out. Diesel burns, but since it doesn't evaporate as fast as gasoline, you don't have those flammable gases hanging in the air. A trail of diesel that's being burned at one end will not spread, unlike gasoline.
Okay
Gasoline doesn't burn that easily, either. Cars with gas tanks don't burst into flames while sitting powered off in a garage. Even when they get wrecked they don't usually burst into flames.
On the other hand, gasoline is slowly causing the world to burst into flames…
Well yeah... You need a spark to cause a fire. To have ignition you need oxygen, fuel and a spark.
Nothing burns easily if there's no spark.
Gasoline burns accidentally when fumes are released, as the stoichiometric mixture has to be pretty specific to combust.
Gasoline in a gas tank does not achieve this mixture. That's the entire job of the fuel pump and throttle in modern cars. As the other user said, there are lots of sparks and live electricity in a car crash, it's just not easy to set gasoline on fire or make it explode.
Diesel does not appear to achieve this vapor mixture readily at standard temp and pressure, like gasoline does, and therefore is technically safer in this specific regard.
Okay.
There are plenty of sparks in a car crash.
Diesel combusts at 140 degrees. A care could reach those temps in a car accident as well if we're making that argument.
Gasoline and diesel can be extinguished relatively easily. Extinguishing an EV means throwing it into a tub of water for a day or two
Gasoline vehicles also don't tend to catch fire spontaneously while parked. That risk exists with every unattended lithium-ion battery undergoing recharging. People technically shouldn't be plugging their phones in at night and then going to sleep, but everyone does it anyway.
Doesn't matter much for phones, but when talking EV charging... Night electricity tends to be cheaper when it's not solar energy season.
Can't wait for miles of 240V extension cords when EU makes even used non EVs illegal. Yes, millions of city dwellers in apartments totally have a garage to charge in.
There will be solutions by 2050 (the proposed timeframe for having a zero-emissions fleet). For an example, vehicles with combustion engines can still be newly registered after 2035 if they use only CO2-neutral fuels. I think EU would rather ban sale of fossil fuels than ban used cars that can technically burn fossil fuels. If only plant-based fuels are available, it doesn't matter what the cars can technically burn.
The German big 3 are already developing cars that would only run on non-fossil fuels I believe.
Secondly, chargers near apartment buildings and on sidewalks can be added. We have plenty of time.
And I'm sure Germany will water down the regulations even more so in the end, I'm fairly sure they'll consider new MHEVs fine after 2035.
And finally, those who can't charge at home will do so at the charging stations. It's not a huge issue if you have a battery with 500+ km of range. Might be an issue for i-miev and first gen Leaf owners though.
Unless we get mass producable, cheap fuel like CHOOH2, "cars can use co2 neutral fuels" is translation to "in reality no ICE cars for the mass population"
And who will pay for those? My town can barely get enough money to maintain street lights, who will install and maintain the charging infrastructure on streets where it will inevitably get destroyed?
Oh yes, so now instead of 15 minute wait at a gas station I will only have to wait 2 hours before a space is available and then 30 minutes to charge, all while thinking "how much is this quick charge degrading my battery"
There's 27 years to go till EU's predicted (not required by law) end of ICE cars. There's time to invest, time to innovate and hopefully time for your town to reduce crime and gain more resources.
Also HVO is pretty affordable nowadays. Maybe 20% more than regular diesel fuel at most. It is claimed to be carbon neutral. I'm sure something similar will be developed for otto cycle engines.
Also unless you're planning to use a first gen leaf past the 2050s, quick charging isn't very bad. All modern EVs have battery cooling and will also throttle charging when the temperature rises. The don't full on go 350kW for 20 minutes straight.
Waiting 2 hours is solved by installing more chargers. Clearly a regional issue with fuel pumps as well because I never have to wait over 2-3 minutes.
27? Last time I checked 2025 is 2 years away and 2035 is 12 years away.
Again, how will a town of 25k people that can barely maintain street lights and roads be able to afford 15 thousand chargers?
It's EU's prediction for when the last ICE cars will be off the road, which was the initial point made - when USED ICE cars are gone.
Ia destroying public or private property not a crime over there? You said they were definitely going to be destroyed, I'm assuming you have a high crime rate there.
Takes my town of 90k, fewer than 100 fuel pumps to have a nonexistent wait time. Do you think everyone in your town will pick the exact same day and hour to go to the fast charger?
I'm Czech. The problem is with a certain group and in todays political climate is unsolvable.
Yes, exactly. You need just a few gas stations
After work? Yes. Again, can't wait for those extension cables hanging from my building's 7th floor
Every day after work? There are 7 days in a week and you don't even need to charge every week.
Also why would you drag extension cords? You should get the building board to install chargers properly. If you own your apartment, you have a vote on the board, no? And if you rent, you bug your landlord to bring it up. They'll hopefully realize it adds value even after you're gone.
This all sounds like a lack of political will on the part of the citizens. This changes quickly once people realize they NEED to charge their cars.
So we rationing power like it's a war?
Oh yes, because they will totally agree to spend money on public infrastructure. Or you think our apartment buildings have reserved parking? Man, what world do you live in? Certainly not a real one
We're already doing that with fuel. Do you fill up every single day after work? No, because what absolute psycho does that unless they literally drain their entire tank daily?
Nearly all apartment buildings have parking in my country, unless you're living in a bigger city's center. If all you have is street-side parking, it sounds like your town isn't meant for car ownership and you should take public transit or move to a town meant for car owners. You can't have everything at once sadly. In a town of 25k people and no space wasted on parking spots, it can't be more than 5 minutes to get anywhere by electric scooter though? Maybe get one of those for your commute and you'll only need to charge your EV once a month.
I didn't notice government telling me when I do need to fill up or not. And I do top up about twice a week, because the cheapest gas station in my city is right on my way home, so might as well top up those few liters while prices are low.
And they are owned by the apartment building HOAs or by the city?
Thanks, I will make sure to tell the communist planners to include 4x as much parking next time I go back in time to the 1970s
Can't exactly transport lot of stuff on an ebike, can I? My backpack barely fits in my basket.
Please don't put lithium in water; that will make it worse.
Tell that to firefighters.