this post was submitted on 22 Feb 2025
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[โ€“] Quittenbrot@feddit.org 1 points 47 minutes ago (1 children)

Not doubting his general point. But it is a bit weird of Mr Gomart to pick the Rafale to prove it.

It is precisely what happened there (France leaving the Eurofighter Typhoon programme and doing their own model due to not being able to find a common compromise) that cripples European alternatives and enables American models to dominate our market.

Would we be able to agree on common standardised models, we could have far more for far less and it could be European.

[โ€“] Melchior@feddit.org 1 points 18 minutes ago

He is French.

[โ€“] morgunkorn@discuss.tchncs.de 46 points 12 hours ago (5 children)

never understood why the armies of the EU wouldn't bank on airframes produced locally, we have great technology with Eurofighter Typhoon, Dassault Rafale, Saab Gripen

[โ€“] idefix@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 hour ago

Looking at the reactions when Poland bought US planes taught me a lot about the lack of maturity / insights from Eastern European countries, still blinded by the shining lights from NATO and US while ignoring their EU neighbours.

[โ€“] NIB@lemmy.world -2 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Because none of them have the capabilities of the F-35. And they are even more expensive than the F-35.

[โ€“] Tehdastehdas@lemmy.world 5 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

If so, it must be because they don't have enough R&D money because we haven't been buying them. Own goal.

[โ€“] NIB@lemmy.world 2 points 1 hour ago

Partially but the big advantage of being in a big alliance, it sharing stuff. That is the most effective way of progressing.

Take microchips for example. Taiwan is making them, with european machines and the european machines use american technology. Taiwan is able to create cutting edge microchips because they are allied and dependent on their allies. Similarly, a lot of russian technology has its roots in the soviet era, when russians had access to scientists/technology from all over eastern Europe.

Apes together strong. Thats the strength of alliances. But if you have a bad faith ape, that ape can destroy the effort of all other apes. Thats the weakness of alliances. For strategically important things(jet planes), you might be willing to take an efficiency hit, by creating things independently for security reasons. Which is why the french have rafale.

But keep making cutting edge things in order to maintain and improve your defence industry capabilities is very expensive. Thats why Canada doesnt have a jet plane industry, even though they used to have a very capable fighter jet industry. Or you could be like Russia, where you can design new planes but dont have the money to produce them, so you are basically spending a lot of money, creating one off planes.

[โ€“] a887dcd7a@lemmy.world 12 points 10 hours ago (2 children)

Aren't they all 4/4.5th generation and not capable of carrying nukes? I mean they are a great stopgap and I would prefer having plenty of them, but the F35 abilities are much needed on a tactical and strategic level.

Too bad, it's off the table with this liability.

[โ€“] morgunkorn@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

the Rafale is used for nuclear deterrence and can carry medium range air launched cruise missiles. They are to be replaced with hypersonic cruise missiles with the Rafale F5 until 2035.

[โ€“] Shipgirlboy@sh.itjust.works 10 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

The Rafale can carry the ASMP, a french nucular cruise missile and I wouldn't be surprised if the Gripen could be upgraded such that it can do so as well.

[โ€“] a887dcd7a@lemmy.world 9 points 9 hours ago (2 children)

Kay. Coming from Germany it is about the nukes of our .. ehm.. "friends". We still use the Tornado from 1974 because of incompabilities of our Eurofighters.

[โ€“] Melchior@feddit.org 1 points 20 minutes ago

That is mainly because Germany does not want to give the US all the blueprints of Eurofighter, rather then it being technically impossible to do.

[โ€“] Saleh@feddit.org 3 points 3 hours ago

Does that matter though? e.g. if you do a nuclear strike, wouldn't you bring enough support to make sure the nuke reaches its target?

[โ€“] jmcs@discuss.tchncs.de 16 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Corruption. Paying for the protection racket. All good reasons /s

[โ€“] F04118F@feddit.nl 11 points 11 hours ago

It's much simpler than that: the Americans are always in charge of international operations.

The Dutch Air Force officers still get soggy about the prize for "the explosion of the year" that they received for bombing a Serbian powerplant. ๐Ÿคฎ

An occasional pat on the back is enough, they don't even need to bribe our leaders anymore.

[โ€“] albert180@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 11 hours ago

I would get of buying foreign products in order to appease them, but buying something you can't even use without their permission for every start is really stupid

[โ€“] DmMacniel@feddit.org 24 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago) (1 children)

Imagine the US invading the EU (or don't play according their whims) and they can just *boop* disable all our advanced equipment.

[โ€“] AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space 26 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

Spoiler: the Ukrainians who jailbroke John Deere tractors end up saving the day

[โ€“] DmMacniel@feddit.org 7 points 10 hours ago (1 children)
[โ€“] unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago)

Idk, but what did happen is that the John Deere remotely disabled equipment stolen by the russians. This is one of those cases where it sound cool but it obviously comes with horrible implications.

[โ€“] poVoq@slrpnk.net 12 points 12 hours ago