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Science Fiction

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Lemmy World Rules

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So I am currently rewatching Stargate SG1 and thinking about certain things that always rub me the wrong way when watching or reading SciFi. Now, I know that Stargate in particular doesn't really take itself too seriously and shouldn't be scrutinized too much. It's also a bit older. But there are still some things that even modern SciFi-Worlds featuring outer space and aliens have or lack, that always slightly rub me the wrong way. I would love to hear your opinion.

  1. Lack of any form of camera surveillance technology

I mean, come on, the Goa'uld couldn't figure out a way to install their equivalent of cameras all over their battle ships in order to monitor it? They have forms of video/picture transmitting technology. Star Trek also seems to lack any form of video surveillance. (I'm not up to date with the newest series.) Yes, I get that having a crew member physically go to a cargo bay and check out the situation is better for dramatic purposes. But it always rubs me the wrong way that they have to do that. I would just love to see a SciFi-Series set in space where all space ships are equipped with proper camera technology. Not just some vague "sensor" that tells the crew "something is wrong, but you will still have to physically go there and see it for yourself". I want the captain of a space ship to have access to the 200,000 cameras strategically placed all over the ship to monitor it.

  1. Languages

I have studied linguistics, learned several foreign languages and lived in a foreign country for a while, so my perspective is influenced by that. I always find it weird when everybody "just talks English". Yes, I get that it's easier to write stories in which all characters can just freely interact with each other. But it's always so weird to me when an explorer comes to a foreign planet and everybody just talks their language. At least make up an explanation for it! "We found this translator device in the space ship that crashed on earth". There you go. I love the Stargate Movie where Daniel Jackson figures out how to communicate with the people on Abydos. During the series most worlds will just speak English, with some random words in other languages thrown in. As someone interested in linguistics I love Stargate for how much it features deciphering languages, though I still find it weird when they go to another world and everybody just speaks English.

  1. Humanoid aliens

Especially with modern CGI I would just love to shows get more creative when it comes to alien races. We don't need a person in a costume anymore. Every once in a while you will have that weird alien pop up, but all in all I feel like there's still a lot of potential. Also changes in Human physiology due to different environmental conditions on foreign planets.

That being said, I would also like to mention some SciFi-titles that in my mind stand out for being very creative in this regard:

  • The writing of Julie Czerneda is very creative when it comes to alien species. She was a biologist and uses her knowledge to create a wide variety of alien life forms
  • The forever war (Without spoiling the end, so I'll leave it at that. Just liked it as a creative take on an alien race so different it's incomprehensible to us)
  • I very much appreciate Douglas Adams for the babel fish.
  • I also liked The expanse for including the development of a Belter language and changes in human physiology due to different gravity.

What do you think? Do you know any good examples of SciFi-Worldbuilding, that solve some common inconsistencies?

(Edited because it looked weird :P) Also, I rembered one more thing: I have two serious food allergies and I always cringe when I see characters take some random food from an alien civilisation and eat. It's especially bad right now while rewatching Stargate. SG1 just keeps happily eating and drinking anything that is offered and there are so many scenes of them eating without asking much. Maybe it's just because I can't even do that in my own society and am so used to always asking "What is in it? Can I eat it?" Although some shows have good solutions like standard nutrient packs in a military context or food replicators that create any food you want.

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[–] turkalino@lemmy.yachts 2 points 54 minutes ago

To your second point, I think the Universal Translator in Star Trek is the best explanation. Not only does it make for more convenient television, but it seems like such a well thought-out invention that would actually exist in the future. Like why make everyone learn one language and wipe out all the history/culture behind the others when you can just let everyone do their own thing.

[–] PoopingCough@lemmy.world 4 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Can't believe no one has mentioned this yet but my big one is physics in microgravity. There are some that do it well (like obv Apollo 13 given how they filmed it, and The Expanse is usually pretty good about it too) and plenty that it doesn't really matter but there's a bunch of movies and tv shows that hang major plot points on poorly thought out physics. The worst offender imo was ironically the movie Gravity, where a major character dies because apparently when two people are tethered to each other in zero-g and the line goes taut they don't just bounce back towards each other, oh no, because there's an extra special force that keeps pulling on the futher person so he has to make some dramatic self sacrifice. I was so sad because that movie looked really amazing from a cinematography perspective and obviously a lot of people loved it regardless but i just couldn't get past how dumb that and a few other scenes were.

[–] smeg@feddit.uk 1 points 2 hours ago

Definitely agree about Gravity. Beautiful to watch, completely unrealistic (which wouldn't have been such a problem if they weren't pitching it as ultra-realistic!)

[–] vulture_god@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (1 children)

Such a great topic, thanks for making this post!

I've heard a lot I agree with already (ditto on the Becky Chambers / Wayfarers rec for alien morphology and culture).

One thing I haven't heard yet (maybe it's not a perfect fit for the question) - poor characterization and an over reliance on world-building / technology. This is how later Neal Stephenson books (Reamde) have felt to me, where the characters feel like flat automotons but there will be pages and pages about some minute technological detail. Consider Phlebas is another offender, although I do think some of the latter Culture books do better. The final mention would be a number of Peter F Hamilton books.

Because this is all a matter of taste, I find this interesting on a more personal level. I've noticed my own preferences change as I get older, away from the neat tech aspects and more on the characters and their respective arcs. And even their arcs don't need to be tied to external plot beats, but can be intensely personal (e.g. Sissex's struggle to understand whether they want to be a parent in Wayfarers). I also really liked Amos's arc in the expanse where we get an idea of where he comes from, and is able to find companionship with Clarissa (who has a pretty good arc herself as well).

It's a very similar dynamic in my fantasy tastes these days as well - my favorite series is Realm of the Elderlings. Whether Sci-fi or Fantasy though, it has been relatively difficult to find books that better align with these tastes. Definitely open to any recs from others!

[–] smeg@feddit.uk 4 points 2 hours ago (2 children)

poor characterization and an over reliance on world-building / technology

Interesting, I think I'd completely disagree! A story can be rubbish at being a story but still be great sci-fi; I think the world-building and technology is generally what makes it sci-fi, the characters, plot etc are an independent thing. I guess needing to nail both of those makes writing really good sci-fi even harder.

[–] vulture_god@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

And yeah, getting good characterization and good world building together in the same novel is really hard. Most things I read do a moderately okay job balancing those two, but when it over-indexes on the world-building I struggle to connect with the story being told.

I think the more introspective characterization is a more modern / post-modern trend, so I tend to be a little less picky if I'm reading something like Herbert, Asimov or Heinlein. I just don't think this narrative style was in the zeitgeist yet, but I guess I have higher expectations for more contemporary works.

[–] vulture_god@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 hour ago

For sure - it's like jam bands. You can have these incredible musicians improvising together, but I don't have any interest in listening to it. I can appreciate the skill and artistry, but also say "it's not my thing".

[–] ocean@lemmy.selfhostcat.com 10 points 6 hours ago

That women can only be scientists or whatever if their father was. They can have no other reason or backstory.

[–] yesman@lemmy.world 10 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

What annoys me is that science fiction is that some of the biggest writers don't seem to know any women IRL. If Robert Heinlin or Cixin Lu had to write a believable woman character to bring them food and water, they'd be dead in three days.

[–] Waldelfe@feddit.org 2 points 6 hours ago

That's true. I already mentioned Julie E. Czerneda, her books have female main characters that are pretty well written. I'd recommend looking into her books.

[–] TedDallas@programming.dev 4 points 5 hours ago

Artificial gravity not achieved through acceleration or rotation. That and people don’t explode or instantly freeze when exposed to vacuum.

[–] limer@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 8 hours ago (2 children)

My main gripe is a lot of plots have too much high stake events solved by improbable happenings?

Why save the earth when one can save a meadow? I would love to see a story about a group of people trying to prevent nano technology from entering a park, and the social backlash when they try.

Why do nearly impossible things within a certain time, when one can have more humble happenings?

Space battles are cool but does the main character have to save the ship, fleet or day? Isn’t it enough to save one’s squad?

[–] Dagwood222@lemm.ee 7 points 8 hours ago

"From Russia, With Love" has, imho, the best script of any of the Bond movies. The McGuffin in the movie is a decoder. No A-bombs pointed at NYC, just a pretty routine Cold War assignment.

[–] pantyhosewimp@lemmynsfw.com 3 points 7 hours ago

I’m saying this in the terms of the tabletop role playing game setting Transhuman Space but…

Your post reminded me that I’d like a series of either mysteries or maybe noire detective stories with infomorphs running in cybershells used for blue collar labor like janitorial services on a big belter trading port.

[–] deadbeef79000@lemmy.nz 10 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (1 children)

Distance. Almost every SciFi completely fails to represent distance even remotely closely.

This isn't a gripe about FTL, it's a gripe about non-FTL! Fancy FTL avoids the problem.

Star trek does it quite well in most cases, it takes days at warp foo to get anywhere. Voyager took years.

New Star wars butchers it; e.g. The Mandalorian episode with the no lightspeed/hyperspace plot device: oh no it took hours/days to get between star systems. Days! Imagine taking days to travel unfathomable distances!

New Dune (KJA's books) inexcusably get it wrong. Claiming that "slow" travel between systems took months.

The mote in God's eye does it extremely well with its pairs of jump points (shoutout to Mass Effect here too). Sometimes it's quicker to use a jump point to another system, crawl to another (nearer) jump point and then jump back to the first sytem rather than crawl directly across the original system.

It takes light very long time to travel across our solar system, let alone interstellar distances. It's like these writers have never even considered how long a container ship on earth takes to travel and still be viable.

[–] Waldelfe@feddit.org 3 points 6 hours ago

I've been listening to the audiobook of Dirk Van den Boem "Sternkreuzer Proxima" ("Starcruiser Proxima", couldn't find the actual English titel on a quick search). He has some very good descriptions of the gruelingly long times any maneuver in space takes. Also being cramped in a small space ship with no fresh air, tasteless food rations and not knowing what is going to happen, while your ship and the enemy ship spend the next 50 hours getting in position for their attack.

[–] magnetosphere@fedia.io 19 points 10 hours ago (2 children)

This is a common complaint, but it deserves to be mentioned frequently: exploding control panels. This is especially a problem in Star Trek. Are circuit breakers a lost technology?

[–] CoCo_Goldstein@lemmy.world 7 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

"This is especially a problem in Star Trek"

It gets really bad in ST Discovery, especially in the last season. Any time the ship gets into trouble, a cascade of sparks starts falling down. It looks like a waterfall made of sparks. The bridge basically looks like a KISS concert.

[–] magnetosphere@fedia.io 2 points 4 hours ago

The bridge basically looks like a KISS concert.

lol I’ve seen what you’re talking about. It’s a little much.

[–] Waldelfe@feddit.org 2 points 5 hours ago

Exploding anything I would say, though this seems to be a general TV problem. Your device got shaken up a tiny bit? EXPLOSION!

[–] kubok@fedia.io 12 points 9 hours ago

Noisy space battles.

[–] lordnikon@lemmy.world 13 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (10 children)

Yeah I will say it's fun to point out the plot holes whenever comparing it to the real world. But as you get older you realize. I don't want writers to care about this stuff unless it is in service to the story. That's the problem with a lot of new scifi. Is worrying about this stuff and always calling back to previous series is what bogs down storying telling. If your story is good I don't care about the holes.

[–] Waldelfe@feddit.org 1 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

I get what you mean, but on the other hand I want to be able to out myself into the story and relate to the characters. If the characters are behaving in a dumb way or the problems they face are too unrealistic, that takes away from the enjoyment. Let me put it like that: I can suspend my disbelieve to accept that an allien artifact can create a wormhole to another planet or that intelligent parasitic life forms exist. I find it hard to believe the US military would send poeple to alien planets without cautioning them about eating the local food. Because to me it is inconsistent with the premise: A military operation would at least address this problem in some form. As I said, it's just a minor annoyance to me, not a big plot hole or anything. But I find it hard to enjoy media where part of the storytelling is based on the premise "let's just assume this advanced human/alien civilisation hasn't thought about an easy solution that we have been using for decades".

[–] lordnikon@lemmy.world 2 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

"I find it hard to believe the US military would send poeple to alien planets without cautioning them about eating the local food."

I laughed hard when I saw this sentence. I guess you have not been around the military much. The military puts solders, sailors , marines, and airmen through class after class to not do stupid shit when deployed or even state side and they still do stupid shit and get article 15s or worse arrested.

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[–] ptz@dubvee.org 24 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago) (5 children)

In and of itself, I don't mind it, but I'm mildly annoyed by most having some form of FTL travel. That's why The Expanse was so refreshing for me.

Like, I get it. Having FTL drive (or comparable ways to go vast distances in short times) allows a larger universe for the characters. It's also, I would imagine, easier to write since the writers wouldn't have to deal with the vast scales, time dilation, and asynchronous events happening in different parts of the galaxy/story.

For comparison, The Expanse worked because it was all within our solar system. In the Revelation Space series (book), humans are doing interstellar travel, but they're in cryo the whole trip, and the journey takes years. The author formerly worked for the ESA and pretty much had to show his work every step of the way to get all the characters together on the same planets at the same time.

So yeah, I get why we don't see that more often (especially in TV series with less accredited writers), but it would be nice to see it once in a while nonetheless.

[–] Yaky@slrpnk.net 2 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Revelation Space series does not have FTL, but in its place, an engine that can produce 1G indefinitely (not manufactured anymore, powered by handwavium, it seems... but the secret is revealed in one of the short stories). There is further shenanigans with physics, but never FTL.

It definitely adds more nuance to the world, because now you can't have interstellar empires if you cannot communicate over large distances.

[–] ptz@dubvee.org 3 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

SpoilerI forget the exact hand-wavium, but something like a contained black hole kept in check by a child's brain. A child who volunteered for the task.

There is further shenanigans with physics

Yeah, and I really liked that subplot, too. In Star Trek, inertial dampeners are just a handwave device. But in RS, they explored humanity's experiments with manipulating inertia and the gruesome results when pushed too far. Probably one of my favorite chapters of Redemption Ark.

[–] Dagwood222@lemm.ee 3 points 7 hours ago

I can't remember the name of the book.

Space travel takes years. One trick is to slow down the crews metabolism so that a five year voyage feels like five weeks. The ship's AI 'wakes up' crew when an emergency occurs. If you were not 'awoken' you'd see your crewmate suddenly vanish and then reappear a moment later.

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[–] scarabic@lemmy.world 7 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago)

This is why Darmok is peak sci-fi. It discusses what happens when species can’t communicate with one another. It even works within the in-show explanation of the universal translator: the Tamarians don’t just use different vocabulary and syntax. They have an entirely different language model.

[–] Davel23@fedia.io 15 points 10 hours ago

Star Trek also seems to lack any form of video surveillance.

In the Star Trek: The Next Generation series premier Encounter at Farpoint, Riker comes aboard later on after several plot-relevant events. To bring him up to speed, he's seated in front of a viewscreen and watches what has happened up to that point, basically the first part of the episode. Of course, this sort of thing is never used in the series again, but it's kind of interesting.

[–] Dagwood222@lemm.ee 20 points 11 hours ago (2 children)

One of the funniest episodes of the Men In Black cartoon was J trying to adjust to MIB's 37 hour day.

But it shows a problem; in most sci-fi not only are all the aliens 1.8 meters tall with five fingers and a larynx that can mimic human speech, they all come from world's with a 24 hour day. Actually, to get nerdier, most cultures with a sun would probably have a 24 hour day based on them using circular sun dials. But the length of the hours would vary.

Another thing that annoys me is when an author comes up with a fantastic idea and uses it once. There's a Poul Anderson story I read in high school that I always wanted to see developed. A group of time travelers from 3854 AD go back to meet da Vinci. They get captured by a baron who tortures them into revealing all their secrets.

The baron and his family set up an estate in 20,000 BC and maraud through time.

This story could run six seasons, easily.

[–] teft@lemmy.world 11 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago) (1 children)

most cultures with a sun would probably have a 24 hour day based on them using circular sun dials

The use of 24 (really its 2 12 part divisions of day and night) is arbitrary. They could really use any numbering system.

The reason we use 12 and 60 is from the babylonians. We think they used base 12 and 60 because of body part counting. Each digit of the hand minus the thumb is divided into 3 parts. That gives you 12 then each finger on the opposite hand gives you 5 of each 12 count giving you base 60. If an alien has different parts, which they will, they wouldn't necessarily use the same numbers.

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[–] MajorHavoc@programming.dev 6 points 8 hours ago (2 children)

The camera thing drives me nuts, because we all know it's generally just going to be what's drives the plot for this story. Which is okay.

But as a privacy nerd, my brain immediately concocts some deeply weird privacy law to explain why main engineering is monitored 24/7 and the front door is somehow not. Then my brain starts trying to come up with the relevant moments in the fictional history why the laws are so broken...

[–] Waldelfe@feddit.org 3 points 5 hours ago

I like that. They had a ton of cameras on all Star Trek ships - but then a scandal involving sex tapes and an illegal porn trade between Star Fleet officers happened and cameras in Star Fleet ships were completely outlawed.

[–] Probius@sopuli.xyz 6 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

And even if, for example, the Federation had such privacy laws, it should be pretty much impossible to hide on a Cardassian ship because you know they're all about that surveillance state.

[–] MajorHavoc@programming.dev 2 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

Yeah. The Cardassian cases are the most headache-inducing. My mind-canon for those is just "Gul Dukat thought it would be funny."

Edit: With an occasional splash of "Garak the Simple Tailor messed with the system and no one was willing to admit they didn't know how to fix it." Which doesn't hold up on DS9, where Odo would have, but works for various Cardassian locations.

[–] Boinkage@lemmy.world 15 points 11 hours ago (3 children)

Sounds and non-newtonian physics in space flight. You wouldn't hear rumbling engines or lasers shooting in space. You also wouldn't need to keep burning your thrusters after you've accelerated towards your destination.

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I am mildly annoyed when an action scene essentially pauses so the heroes can have a small dialog scene.

I always find myself wondering: isn’t that bad guy, hull breach, detonation timer etc still there?

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