If you listen closely, you can hear the sound of Technology Connections screaming "YIPPEEE"
this post was submitted on 24 Sep 2023
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25 states agree to do something productive
lemme guess which 25
For those who don't want to guess:
Guam and Puerto Rico were counted as states.
What are they trying to do with that map? Why not just use a regular map so LA isn't west of TX?
People try and make maps of the states where everyone is equal sized a lot for graphics because it's hard to label smaller states in an easily readable way. This messed up the geography though as seen above.
That looks pretty blue (off the top of my British head).
It's has most of but not all the blue states but there's also red ones too.
Wtf, North Dakota and Montana?
You guys stand to benefit from this.
.
Of course, they also have oil wells, don't they...
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That’s the whole conservative deal: they’re not for doing things.
What is that map? Y'all seeing this?
Didn't realize Kansas was next to Louisiana.... super weird
Must be the app you're using, I see a diagram of a heat pumps operation.
I think they mean this graphic from the article. Looks like the periodic table of states.
This map is amazing. Whoever made it probably lives on the west coast.
“Where should we put Wisconsin, south of Michigan right?”
“Sure, why not, geographically part of Michigan is north of Wisconsin.”
“Ah, oops, I ran out of room for Indiana”
“Put it south of Illinois, no one will notice. Right next to Arkansas, it’s fine.”
I also like land-locked New Jersey.
The way they shuffled the Midwest hurts my soul.
Yeah, that's some stupid looking shit.
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I'm going through this right now with my state (MA). After a lot of talking and finding non-shit vendors and quotes and stuff I've got an application into the state program. About $28k total to remove oil from my home completely in favor of heatpumps and a new water heater. State will give us a 10k rebate and a loan where they pay 7 years of interest. So that works out to 10k upfront we get back and then 7 years of $225/month payments.
We pay $300/month for oil. And that price is always getting higher.
Edit: worth mentioning that we are going for a full whole home rebate - to get the full 10k we are required to heat the same areas to the same heat load to qualify. We could have gone for a partial rebate and done a hybrid oil heat pump system. (Which didn't seem to be a good idea long term with oil costs)
Why so expensive? That's the price of our geothermal system with its really expensive well.
5 indoor units, 2 outdoor units, new water tank, electric work, boiler and oil tank both got to get chopped up safely before being brought out. Went through several vendors to get the project under 30k.
And it's New England so the heat pumps have to be hyper heat units that function in winter. We are getting units that will heat to 70 degrees inside at -13deg outside and functions down to -22. (All F)
wow, we paid $16k for 4 indoor units/1 outdoor unit (we can add 1 more indoor unit in case we re-do the basement). $2k for the heat pump hot water heater. $1k to have the oil tank removed. $19k total. for the mini split/water heater we got a 1% loan from the state.
we're in new england and got the mitsubishi hyper heats. this was all pre-covid but wow that is an expensive quote.
For reference the cheapest heat pump water heater I was able to get quoted (4 companies quoted) was $6k. We elected to get a non efficient water tank at $1900. 2023.
I think covid drove up the cost for sure. And I think certain contractors are inflating the price for the rebate. 2 of 4 companies gave me 50k plus quotes even without duct work. Maybe that was the fuck you we don't have the people to do it please go away price though I dunno.
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The article doesn't say just how much more expensive heat pumps are when comparing to gas furnaces. I live in one of the states at the top of that picture and just replaced my 20+ year old furnace and AC compressor. I specifically asked about heat pumps and they were reluctant to even price it out for me. It was over twice the cost. In addition they said the area I live in would almost certainly require an aux heat source, which they recommended gas for because direct electric heat is so horribly inefficient. I ended up going with the 98.5% efficient gas furnace, which also came with incentives and rebates from the power company.
Direct electric heat is very efficient. Practically 100%.
My understanding is that you would only need the aux source during extreme cold. So very rarely.
My heat pump is around 300% efficient. It adds 3X the energy into the house than it spends by stealing that energy from outside.
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That's a misleading number. In most other cases where we are using electricity--motors, CPUs, lighting, etc--we consider the heat generated to be inefficiency. It might be more accurate to say that electric resistance heating is 100% inefficient.
If you're using resistance heating to heat your home, using electricity that's originally produced by natural gas, then you're using more natural gas compared to burning that gas for heat directly in a home furnace. Now, electric resistance heating can be a choice when it's fed by clean electrical sources otherwise. Even then, though, you would prefer a heat pump if possible.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFEHFsO-XSI
I'd explain, but he does it better.
For anyone thinking about watching this video, it's GREAT, and has a ton of other interesting tech videos on the channel.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFEHFsO-XSI
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Knew what video was the second i saw the youtube link :D
And what is the problem with a gas hybrid heat pump? It's an ideal solution for places that get very cold, use the gas furnace for the weeks when it's below -5 and use the heat pump for many months around that. It's one of the most efficient ways to use a heat pump as you don't have to bully it through the coldest part of winter with very bad COPs, you're only using it when it's most efficient. And when your heating period is very long, that will only benefit your seasonal COP. So of course it's more expensive than a simple furnace, but it will also save loads of energy and redeem itself after 5-10 years.
The best part about this is you already have an AC, aka a heat pump, but you don't use it for heating?
I live in New England and gas hybrid is what I looked at. I’m sure it would be very effective, while greatly reducing various air pollution. They quoted $22k to replace my existing furnace and ac, and this was before the big round of price gouging. That is a lot of money.
I live in southern Wisconsin, and that's about what they quoted me in the past year for a top of the line system of both the AC and furnace. That's a multi-stage system that runs at a low level all the time (that's the most efficient way to run it). This is before tax incentives.
A more basic system was around half that cost. If your AC and furnace need replacing, anyway, it's not much more.
Tbf, minimum cost is going to be $4k, so for him/her the minimum was $8k. We don’t know their financial situation but that is a lot of money to cough up.
Thing is, it's not much more than replacing the AC/furnace, anyway. They only last around 20 years. Often less, because people don't do preventative maintenance on them.
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The article does eventually mention that heat pumps cost more, plus replacement rate is limited by when existing stuff goes bad., after way too much filler text.
Of course they gloss over it a bit and use an example “ if a heat pump cost $5,000 …”. If I could do that, I would have. I did get one quote before giving up, and even if you read it as “$5,000 more than conventional options…”, it’s not close to that either.
However the biggest problem with the article is claiming that being more efficient means less operating costs and make a claim about how much money you’ll save. Sure, they’re very efficient , but it’s more complicated than that. Where I live, the preferred alternative is natural gas, and it’s price per energy is much cheaper than electricity, so you’d save very little, if any
I was renting a place while rehabbing my home. We completely removed the natural gas from our house and went induction range, electric oven, heat pump water heater and heat pump air conditioner/furnace. The place we were renting was about 3 blocks away. It had an old but not terribly old gas furnace, standard gas range and oven, gas water heater, and no air conditioner. It turned out to be a really great way to compare the two setups. One mostly gas, somewhat inefficient (which is standard out there), the other ultra modern power saving equipment throughout the house. The rented place had baseboard heating as well, but that is so wildly inefficient that we turned them off and never used them. Sweet jesus it was like lighting cash on fire.
My last bill gas + electric at the old place was $210. My first full month bill at the new place was $90, and that includes an AC running at the new place that didn't exist at the old place.
It is a shocking level of savings, and we aren't even in winter yet where my gas bills at the inefficient place would regularly hit $200.
I'm in FL and have had heat pump cooling since 1992. It's the usual AC system here for, well, at least since the 1990s, if a house has 'central AC' that's a heat pump. There is no other sort of central AC I am aware of. It's not new technology, I am confused?
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Maybe I am just not seeing it, but are there any links to find info on using the program?
There is no program yet I suspect, this is just a commitment to develop programs in each state. Some might already have them, but probably not big enough.
Seeing all those blue, trending blue but purple states listed, then fucking BAM, Louisiana. I know the governor is a D but this suggests this isn't really that big of a commitment if Louisiana is listed if only the governor is the reason.
If they offer a nice price break or rebate, I’d consider it. I’m tired of oil heat. Expensive AF.
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