Only people acting in good-faith care about your "proof"
this post was submitted on 07 Jun 2025
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not if someone expects me to produce documents randomly on the sidewalk.
Without due process they can just take your documents and poof! What documents?
Good luck once locked up without the right to an attorney
Not if the people examining my documents are morons, no.
I have a birth certificate, I have a passport and a passport card. None of that is a defense against "It's fake".
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/may/24/us-citizen-detained-ice-real-id
Time to get a global entry card as well.
Another thing to consider is the recording of a ICE kidnapping where the person said they were a natural born citizen, when asked for proof they didn't have their birth certificate on them... While in the car.. driving to work.
The white paper birth certificate... That in my case is over 50 years old, and embossed with a stamp the clerks office likely got at the local trophy shop. That's it.
Drivers license including the Real ID ones don't count it seems.
So, yes. It's being used to indiscriminately arrest who they want like the Stasi fucks they are.
Insane that the Real ID ones won't count when you need a brith certificate to get one.
Do you not need a birth certificate to get a drivers license in the US?
Nor do you in most countries. Generally, a passport is the most authoritative form of identification.
You can use a birth certificate but it's not required, there's other methods to prove your identity.
Pretty much. The fact is that ICE does stuff like beat up and arrest a state-level union president because they don't like the color of his skin.
Don't call it an arrest.
It's detainment. Kidnapping even. But an arrest has certain procedures and requirements that are not being followed by ICE.
So does detainment. The fact that they are not following the procedures and requirements makes it an unlawful arrest or, as you correctly pointed out, kidnapping.
I’ve been thinking about getting a passport card just to have a proof of citizenship in my wallet at all times.
They picked up at least once citizen who had his passport card on him and put him in detention anyway, saying the card was fake. Which is why due process for everyone is important, because otherwise you'd never get the opportunity to prove you're really a citizen.
Passport cards should be trivially easy for government officials to validate, if they care to. Border agents can, after all. Simply confiscating them and saying "they're fake" shows they don't care whether it is fake or not.
If you have any melanin at all, you should carry your passport card with you at all times, but also keep your full passport at home, in a location that your family and/or trusted friends know about, so they can produce it when ICE comes for you and confiscates your passport card.
if they care to
ICE doesn't care if your skin is too dark, or your name sounds vaguely Arabic or Spanish.
Or if you're just in the wrong place at the wrong time, especially when they need to make a quota.
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Its your word and evidence against the word and ignorance and willingness to kick you out of a racist asshole.
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It's like proving to a Nazi, you don't have Jewish ancestry in 1938.
It's getting to the point very soon that the only way you stop this, is armed community resistance.
No warrant, no entry. The only way you stop the abuse of power, is by confronting it with more power.
They are bullies, they are not brave.
No, that's now. Look at what happened yesterday in L.A., for instance.
What happened?
if only they had some sort of id card they kept on their person at all times.... The government would know who they are. They are explicitly against this. So, "leopards ate my face"
The government doesn't care. They won't look at any proof even if you could provide it.
Due process is how you prove who you are. They're not doing any due process.
Or they'll just call your ID a fake. It's racism through and through.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/may/24/us-citizen-detained-ice-real-id
So many things wrong with this headline.
- It is 'nearly impossible to escape' FOR ANYONE, not just US citizens. By design.
- You can be in the US legitimately without being a citizen.
- ANY AND EVERY detainment by ICE is wrongful.
- You are not legally required to provide ID to authorities. In some states you can be compelled to provide your full name and possibly your address, ONLY if there is reasonable suspicion against you.
There is an important and subtle distinction to be made here. A lot of noise is made calling people who are here without authorization "illegals", but that's not always true. Being present in the country without authorization is not automatically a criminal matter. It is true that many of the avenues for being here without authorization (crossing illegally, overstaying a visa) also violate the law, but that is handled as a separate matter.
Since immigration status is mostly a civil matter, ot a criminal one, these immigration courts are not under the Judicial Branch, like criminal courts are. They are actually "administrative courts" which are part of the Department of Justice, under the President, just like ICE is.
So while the courts occasionally provide a check on this Predident's power, the immigration courts never will. They ultimately report to the President through the DoJ, and the President has much more direct influence over it. So it doesn't surprise me that these people are stuck in a Kafkaesque hell, where ICE ignore their pleas that they are citizens and says "tell it to the judge", and when they finally get to the judge they get ignored.
Is it any wonder that Trump was so dead set against the immigration bill last year? He needed the process to stay chaotic, in order to have a better chance of winning.
Republican leadership has been calling non-citizens here legally under temporary protected status illegals as well. Same holds true for other asylum seekers that followed the legal process. Facts and laws that stand in opposition to their goals are ignored by the republicans in charge and their supporters.
This does beg the question in my mind: If a person is wrongfully determined to be an illegal immigrant despite only having US citizenship, and is actually deported to some country ICE convinces themselves that person is from rather than "deporting" them to some prison in an unrelated country like El Salvador, they would presumably be in that other country illegally at that point. Would they be liable to be deported back to the US in such a case, by the government of that country?
The other country has to be willing to receive them. In this case, the US would probably not.
But countries like El Salvador are being paid by the US to take these people, so they don't really care about the facts, they just want the money.
In that case, do countries usually just take other countries at their word that anyone accused of being an illegal immigrant from that place is actually from where theyre accused of being from, or does the US have to, if it is trying to deport someone somewhere with a reasonably functional government, give that country some kind of evidence that theyre sending them one of their citizens before they agree to take them? For that matter, what happens if a country just stuffs someone on a plane going to another country without the consent of the country in question?
Each country sets their own laws, so it's ultimately up to the destination country. When an ordinary citizen visits another country, they have to meet requirements for entry, but countries can negotiate any terms their government allows them to. So as long as the US government works out terms with the other country in aadvance, they can send anyone.
The US government does have an advantage other countries lack: we have military bases all over the world, including a lot of "shithole countries". There are separate agreements negotiated over the use of that land, but I bet that the US can send whoever they want there without declaring to fhe local authorities who they are. Then the US can "conveniently" lose track of them and.... poof! No more undesirables....
Probably be stuck in customs for life.
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The number of blithely staunch fascists in that article’s comment section is nauseating.
Welcome to America
Proving you're a citizen or not is irrelevant since ICE are not enforcing immigration law they're conducting an ethnic cleansing campaign.
Man, I can't wait for them to try to grab someone with concealed carry.
They're wearing body armor. Dude with a concealed gun likely ends up dead, and ICE gets no charges because they were afraid.
I don't see any Kevlar on their faces.
Odds of shooting somebody in face when you are ambushed by a larger group of armed men are low.
Kevlar isn't magic. For a pistol round, it might absorb a bunch of the energy, but it's still like getting kicked in the chest by a horse. And that's only for one. Or, if they're ceramic plates, they become much less effective after the first impact.
And that's for a pistol. Consider if they come to the wrong house and the person at the door has a shotgun.
The problem is that you're probably not lying in wait with a mythical concealed-carry shotgun. Realistic sequences that have happened in the recent past:
- A couple guys wearing utility company uniforms ask to step inside to diagnose a problem. They then jump you and arrest you.
- Your camera system stops working due to jamming. Then 15 armed men break through your door and surprise you while you're asleep in bed.
- Several people in the crowd at your kid's graduation ceremony suddenly surround you and zip-tie your wrists before you realize what's going on.
You're going to be dealing with a situation where you don't see in advance what's happening, and where you're confronted with a whole batch of people who are heavily armed and wearing body armor. That's a situation where one individual acting alone is very unlikely to succeed in killing an assailant with a gun.
Well, for me personally, all they would need to do is run my finger prints as my prints have been in the system since I was in highschool for employment background checks.
However, that would assume that the thugs were competent and acting in good faith, which they are not.
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