this post was submitted on 02 Aug 2025

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North Korea sent me abroad to be a secret IT worker. My wages funded the regime (www.bbc.com)

submitted 2 months ago by Davriellelouna@lemmy.world to c/technology@lemmy.world

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[–] scott@lemmy.org 34 points 2 months ago (1 children)

They need to disguise their nationality not just because they can get paid more by impersonating Westerners, but due to the extensive international sanctions North Korea is under

🤔

[–] yucandu@lemmy.world 10 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I don't get it, why the inquisitive fave?

[–] scott@lemmy.org 13 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I just see people calling this a scam so much when sometimes it's literally just people getting a job when they're not allowed to be paid. That paired with "they pretend to be westerners so they can get paid more" like well why is it that westerners get paid more than Asians? Just a real interesting quote.

[–] yucandu@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I guess because Russia and China, the countries they worked in, think Westerners can code better than North Koreans?

I don't know if I'd call it a scam so much as slavery.

[–] emergencyfood@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 months ago

The article says he worked from China, for US and European companies. Which explains both the pay difference and the concern about the sanctions.

[–] AmidFuror@fedia.io 17 points 2 months ago

No one knew he was an IT worker.

[–] ordnance_qf_17_pounder@reddthat.com 16 points 2 months ago

How many forensic scientists did it take to work that one out? 😂

[–] cy_narrator@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

I dont understand one thing, if North Korea does not even have good computers how do they train their agents?

[–] squaresinger@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago

No need for good computers to train agents. They don't need to play crysis to train as hackers. Something on the level of a Pi (or more accurately of a 2010 laptop) is good enough.

[–] emergencyfood@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 months ago

Didn't they get a lot of computer hardware from Russia recently?

[+] GnuLinuxDude@lemmy.ml -21 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (4 children)

The BBC cannot independently verify the specifics of Jin-su's testimony, but through PSCORE, an organisation which advocates for North Korean human rights, we've read testimony from another IT worker who defected that supports Jin-su's claims.

Oh. Ok. You'd think he can prove something with like a pay stub, at minimum. But I guess the standard of proof when reporting on N Korea is "an anti-n korea org also said so." I was genuinely interested in this article until that line.

[–] TachyonTele@piefed.social 37 points 2 months ago (2 children)

ml and their daydream of a perfect NK is hilarious to see in the wild.

[–] witheyeandclaw@lemmy.sdf.org 24 points 2 months ago (1 children)

You can have healthy skepticism without jumping to the other end of the spectrum of DPRK stan.

[–] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 12 points 2 months ago

Normal people can, yes, but .ml isn't full of normal people. There's a good reason for the instance's stereotype.

[–] GnuLinuxDude@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 months ago (2 children)

You're not addressing the fact that BBC admits they didn't/couldn't substantiate his claims, which apparently is no problem for your own journalistic standards.

[–] markko@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

They are reporting on what he told them. Would you expect a news outlet to be able to somehow verify the testimony of a prisoner of war before reporting on it?

The title and article both make it clear that they are reporting his story.

Additionally, the rest of the article - including the ones before and after your quote - discusses numerous cases of other similar scenarios.

[–] GnuLinuxDude@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Would you expect a news outlet to be able to somehow verify the testimony of a prisoner of war before reporting on it?

"If the circumstance were different would you expect something different?" is what you are asking me. The interviewee isn't a POW, but a defector. And not an escapee, because according to the article he was already sent abroad, so it's not like he fled with merely the clothes on his back and a story to tell. So I would presume he would have a bit more evidence to share with the BBC than just a story, just as many of the people responding to me seem to presume that because it's been reported by the BBC it's prima facie undeniably true.

[–] TachyonTele@piefed.social 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Why would i address that?
Was i ordered to adress anything other than what I've already commented on?

Have I been compelled to address it?

Do i believe in any way that NK isn't unfortunately a shithole fascist dictatorship of a country?

Do i feel bad for you for wanting to think NK is a theme park sunday stroll paradise?

No.

[–] GnuLinuxDude@lemmy.ml -2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

You're tedious and annoying.

[–] TachyonTele@piefed.social 1 points 2 months ago

If tedious and annoying means you can't handle reality, yes, yes I am.

[–] yucandu@lemmy.world 27 points 2 months ago (1 children)

an anti-n korea org

No, an organization that advocates for North Korean human rights. That's a pro-north korea org.

You gonna tell me that people who have a problem with Pol Pot are "Anti-Cambodian", Mr ".ml"?

[–] InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world 19 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Tankies just aren't serious people.

[–] Klear@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago

On second thought let's not go to lemmy.ml. It is a silly place.

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Wait... you're doubtful because it's coming from a anti-NK instance? A pay stub is just going to show he worked. He could have bought and sent bitcoin or done so with cash drop offs. Why does this story magically no longer become interesting because of a group that helps defected NKs?

[–] GnuLinuxDude@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Why does this story magically no longer become interesting because of a group that helps defected NKs?

There is nothing magic about it. The organization that's cited isn't the problem. The problem is the BBC cites that org as proof that this person's claims are true. But neither that org nor the BBC have said, "we have corroborated Jin-su's story." On the contrary, the BBC just admits they didn't or couldn't corroborate the story themselves. So in my mind I may as well have read this article on any rando's blog post, or in the NYT in 2001 under a Judith Miller byline. It lacks credence.

I wouldn't have had anything to say if BBC said that they reviewed some documents that showed Jin-su's claim. Maybe a few of the "hundreds" of fake IDs that he used, for example. But instead they just read another testimony from PSCORE. Was that other testimony verified? They don't bother explaining. So they just use an unverified testimony from PSCORE and pass that off to make the reader believe that that's good enough in place of actually verifying Jin-su's testimony!

[+] Ferrous@lemmy.ml -12 points 2 months ago (2 children)

It's no longer interesting because it's probably bullshit - which is par for the course for these CIA cutouts. These are the same groups that push absurd ideas about state-mandated haircuts, Kim Jong Un dying, that Kim Jong Un executed his ex, that North Korea banned sarcasm, that Kim Jong Il claims he once shot 11 straight holes in one, etc... these pieces get absolutely eaten up by western liberals who, in the next breath, will call citizens of the DPRK the most propagandized on earth.

[–] yucandu@lemmy.world 9 points 2 months ago

The reason China spreads so much propaganda about North Korea actually being totally normal and everything bad you hear about it actually being CIA propaganda lies/because of western sanctions, is because they don't want to admit any responsibility for being the largest trading partner to a despotic authoritarian regime.

That's why you only see this kind of weird denialism around North Korea, and not the other places with shitty leaders and backwards authoritarian laws.

You are repeating Chinese propaganda. You need to understand North Korea isn't socialist. China isn't socialist. And just because America, a country that has done a lot of anti-socialist shitty things, says that North Korea is run by a despot, doesn't mean they're wrong. North Korea is run by a despot. Just because people have said things about North Korea that have been proven wrong, doesn't mean everything ever said about North Korea is wrong.

[–] TachyonTele@piefed.social -2 points 2 months ago

Lol another ml that thinks NK is a paradise

[–] Takapapatapaka@tarte.nuage-libre.fr 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

There are also reports by companies and american judiciary system. Now, those are biased voices too, they lack clear proof of what happened, and they probably make it bigger than it is, but i find it unlikely that this is 100% bs and staging : if i had that much resources to pour into staging something, i think it would be more convincing.

[–] GnuLinuxDude@lemmy.ml 11 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I'm not doubting the N Korean scheme to infiltrate IT jobs. There's even that woman who was prosecuted (I think she lived in Arizona?) because she is one person who acted as a facilitator for this scheme. My point is the BBC ran a story with an "anonymous" source then admits in the middle that they couldn't substantiate any of the claims. That's the problem here.

[–] Takapapatapaka@tarte.nuage-libre.fr 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Okay, my mistake, i misinterpreted it. To be fair with BBC, they point out in the title and article that this is just some transcript of someone anonymous, and they try to tie each allegation with reports from other sources to back up their likeliness. I guess it's the best you can do with someone anonymous ? Revealing the company, dates, or town might compromise the anonymity. I have this low-key uncomfortable feeling of "well, there's nothing that proves it" with most anonymous reports i read or hear, even when it's for events that are common otherwise.

[–] GnuLinuxDude@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 months ago

In cases like these the journalists can and often do say something to the effect of they were able to corroborate the claims. But you're super right about being careful, because they also can mishandle the data they receive to the point where they dox the anonymous source, too. That's what happened with Reality Winner and The Intercept. They botched it, and she was arrested.