this post was submitted on 18 Oct 2025
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[–] BuboScandiacus@mander.xyz 11 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Toki pona

Thus making everything open to interpretation

[–] morgan_423@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago (3 children)

I'd honestly love to see something like that become an actual universal language. Simple grammar, sub 500 words, a little more meat on the bones to eliminate some of the ambiguity, but be easy enough to teach every kid in early grade school. Something that just allows basic communication and is accessible to everyone.

Don't think it's going to be an evolved toki pona though, it feels like most of its fan base just wants to keep it an impractical art hobby instead of allowing it to grow up to be something useful.

[–] isyasad@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago

I stopped believing in toki pona when I heard somebody say that "watermelon" would be "kili telo" (fruit [of] water). It goes without saying that "kili telo" would not be understood as "watermelon" unless they had heard it in English before, or heard someone use the English-derived "kili telo".
If you're going to use English-language ideas to form words, then English is a prerequisite language for speaking toki pona, and toki pona becomes useless.

I think if toki pona is developed as you describe, it could be much more useful than it is today.

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[–] anoriginalthought@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I've been enjoying studying Mandarin. The tones are a bit weird but the grammar seems surprisingly simple, everything can be written pretty universally in pinyin, and Hanzi characters are great for condensing information.

[–] 0_0j@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Hanzi characters are great for condensing information.

True, I will ask this: Why does it have 2 variants? Traditional? Modern?

[–] sylver_dragon@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago

Because languages change over time and every once in a while someone comes along who insists they can "fix" the language by making a bunch of changes. They are probably right and the changes, if widely adopted, will probably make the language more sensible. However, since one of the common features of a living language is that it changes over time due to usage, oddities will start creeping back in. And the whole thing will need to start all over again.

[–] anoriginalthought@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Fucked if I know πŸ˜‚ I'm studying it on my own from textbooks and online resources, not in a classroom setting taught by scholars much much smarter than me. I assume the reduced complexity of simplified characters makes it more accessible though, which is why I understand the PRC makes Pinyin required on road signs as well.

[–] Infrapink@thebrainbin.org 4 points 1 week ago

The ultimate goal was to transition Mandarin to Roman letters (which had happened naturally in Vietnam, so there was precedent).ao's party realised that going straight from Chinese characters to Roman letters would be too abrupt, so took a first step of swapping out complex characters for characters that look simpler but are easier to write. This was surprisingly well-received, and became standard in mainland China (but Taiwan did not adopt the new system on the entirely reasonable grounds of fuck the CCP). The CCP intended to do a second round of simplification, but the people balked at this on the grounds that it made the written language to difficult to read, and so they stopped at the current set.

[–] fubarx@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago

Screeching 9600 baud modems. Now with more emotion!

[–] RabbitMix@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Dutch, but only because I'm tired of Dutch people telling me I really shouldn't have bothered when they find out I learned to speak Dutch.

I just like learning different languages because it lit|really provides new frameworks of understanding for me, goddamn.

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[–] isyasad@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (7 children)

Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese, and Japanese are totally unrelated languages. Chinese languages are sino-tibetan, Vietnamese is austro-asiatic, Japanese is japonic, and Korean is alone in its own family. Totally unrelated to each other as far as we can trace.

Despite that, they all used to use the same writing system and, shockingly, they were mutually intelligible when written down. In Japanese this method of reading Chinese (without actually knowing Chinese) was called kundoku but I think that the other languages also had ways to read & write Chinese writing with very light translation. Even today, Chinese writing unites the different dialects/languages of China.

My proposed lingua franca is the Chinese writing system. Everybody should keep their own writing systems, but they should also learn to transcribe into Chinese, the only extant written language in which this is really possible.

[–] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 9 points 1 week ago (2 children)

everything you said is true because chinese script is not based on pronounciation, but on (highly abstracted) images. these icons are universal because the concepts they represent are universal.

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[–] _deleted_@aussie.zone 8 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Latin, or even better, Klingon

[–] Apeman42@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

All I know is "petaQ" and "Heghlu'meH QaQ jajvam", but I suppose that should be enough to get by.

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[–] 0_0j@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Swahili speaker (native) here, fluent in English.

Language is a medium of communication between two or more parties. So long as they understand each other, all is good. whether they used klingon or Martian, it don't matter.

What i do know is that, if, hypothetically, internet throws a poll for people all over the world to choose language they will use for communication, every one, myself included, will hold their conner, defending how real and original the language that they are familiar with (and most definitely biased towards) is.

if you put it on a vote on the other hand, something different happens. In fact, it's been happening all along, silently and quietly at the back of our heads. From the first day surfing through the internet to buying your first own smartphone/laptop and choosing the default language for these devices, I know on my part I was driven by convenience. As the majority of media outlets use English. From the shows i watched to the role‐models i looked up on while growing up, they all circled around this fascinating slang that made them even more interesting. The internet's influence towards english made it easy (at least for me) to catch up real quick.

I will say this tho, hearing hakuna matata on the lion king was awesooome

[–] queerlilhayseed@piefed.blahaj.zone 5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

One of the things that really excites me about the internet is its impact on the development of language. We're still at the very beginning of its impact, considering the timescale on which language has traditionally evolved, but I suspect that in time the advent of the internet will be considered a major inflection point in the history of language, maybe the single greatest inflection point in the history of language itself. All of a sudden, billions of people who otherwise would never have had the means to converse directly, are now able to converse directly with billions of other people all over the globe, in near real-time. I can't really imagine how that doesn't have a seismic impact on how human language evolves. I would love to jump forward in time a few centuries just to see how the things that are happening right now shake out in the long term.

[–] manxu@piefed.social 8 points 1 week ago (1 children)

One of the South American variants of Spanish, probably Argentinian. And I say that despite not speaking any Spanish.

The language itself is a contact language and heavily influenced by centuries of cohabitation with speakers of Arabic. That simplified a lot of the Indo-European complexities away.

The phonology - the sounds - of the language are clear and predictable and sufficiently different that a non-native speaker and their accent are not too troublesome in comprehension.

The language itself is already a world language, ranking 4th in number of native speakers.

I like the suggestion of Esperanto, which I do personally speak and which has all the advantages above, except already being a world language.

[–] vfreire85@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

One of the South American variants of Spanish, probably Argentinian.

I'd agree on the sense that everything in argentine spanish can be said with thousands of curse words interspersed. Β‘la puta madre que lo pariΓ³, boludo de mierda!

[–] manxu@piefed.social 2 points 1 week ago

That's why they call it the Silver Tongue!

[–] mathemachristian@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 week ago

TΓΌrkΓ§e not gendered (at all, everyone and everything is "o") and one of the easiest languages to learn

I would argue no one could choose one. A lingua franca is silently agreed upon over long periods of time. No committee sat down to make old Frankish the language of trade, modern French the language of diplomacy, and nowadays English the language of internet arguments.

If I had a magic wand though my vote is Klingon as well. Qa'plah.

[–] 7empest@beehaw.org 5 points 1 week ago

French, we could all be a little more french when keeping our leaders on a leash

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 week ago

Swedish, very pretty language

[–] HubertManne@piefed.social 4 points 1 week ago

one that told me what that means. Seriously though an additional language or changing my base language?

[–] lemmyknow@lemmy.today 4 points 1 week ago

Interlingua

Also note that script is historically mostly used for communication over large distances and times.

Historical scriptures (such as the bible) got transported across half the globe and copied and passed down for more than a thousand years. The scripture transcends both space and time.

If you only want to communicate with your neighbour, you don't need a lingua franca. Lingua franca is exclusively for writing down, and communicating over very large distances (such as the internet). In that case, no pronounciation is needed. So it is possible to have an abstract sign language that doesn't even have a standardized pronounciation.

This might sound absurd at first, if you never thought about it, until you realize that is how a lot of our information is already transported. There are a lot of sketches and visualizations of important data that are graphics, plots, charts, drawings, and such, that don't have a standardized pronounciation. The information is transported visually.

[–] Xaphanos@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago
[–] birdwing@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Lojban, it's culturally neutral, and that makes it all the more nice. Plus it's got an interesting punctuation style.

[–] Coopr8@kbin.earth 4 points 1 week ago

Hmmm, looking at Lojban in a bit more detail it sounds like the consensus is that the conative load of having to construct perfect logical specificity makes it suboptimal as a secondary intermediary language. If people are learning it as a second language it will be very hard to pick up.

[–] Coopr8@kbin.earth 4 points 1 week ago

This seems like a pretty solid option. I feel like this type of algorithmic language construction could be ripe for a big push forward, both in terms of constructing new languages and benchmarking them for use.

[–] Tenderizer78@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 week ago (9 children)
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[–] rigatti@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago
[–] zdhzm2pgp@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)
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[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 3 points 1 week ago

I wouldn't, because everyone would just have to learn another new language if they learned English because it's the current one.

[–] Sunsofold@lemmings.world 3 points 1 week ago

For who? As in I have to stop using English and start using the language or as in the world will all now just speak this language, no qualifications? If it's the former, probably something like Esperanto. If it's the latter, Lojban.

[–] gray@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I would prefer some kind of sign language

[–] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago (4 children)

I like this idea. Generally somewhat simplified, and no β€œpronunciation” needed if it were standardized.

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