this post was submitted on 11 Jul 2023
57 points (93.8% liked)

Next Fucking Level

3499 readers
1 users here now

Next Fucking Level Videos and Gifs.

Rules

  1. Be respectful and inclusive.
  2. No harassment, hate speech, or trolling.
  3. Engage in constructive discussions.
  4. Share relevant content.
  5. Follow guidelines and moderators' instructions.
  6. Use appropriate language and tone.
  7. Report violations.
  8. Foster a continuous learning environment.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Margaret Hamilton, NASA's lead developer for Apollo program, stands next to all the code she wrote by hand that took humanity to the moon in 1969

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] Kinglink@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children)

Man, I thought when we left Reddit shit was going to change?

First off, SHE didn't write all the code, she led a team (And probably wrote a decent chunk herself). It wasn't by hand it was on computers, no one writes computer code by hand, that's just blatantly a myth, even punch cards were normally done BY the computer, not "by hand".

Also something I've questioned before is if that's really "The source code" and not maybe 11 copies (There's 11 binders there) Though most reports from reputable sources say that's "Listings". AKA that's the logging, not the code itself. The code itself may be printed out but would be kept on Punch cards (Again printed by the computer, not by hand). And the final form was actually a rope. (no really)

The thing is the story of Margaret Hamilton (And in fact most programmers of the time) is incredible enough. But when you blatantly lie like this it actually diminishes her accomplishment because it's obviously false and people will tear it down or disbelieve it because it's blatant misinformation.

This is why I left Next Fucking Level, because it became misinformation and karma whoring. It became about the "Story" rather than the actual person/skill/talent/figure. But on Reddit the reason was because people wanted Karma. Shouldn't we have left the basement tier BS and lying behind as well?

[–] SilentMobius@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I don't know how old you are but when I was first introduced to programming in the early 80s all "source code" (Mostly basic and thus interpreted where program is the source code) was referred to as "listings" (this was when the main source of games were monthly magazines where you typed in a listing from a magazine and saved it to tape E.G.. The "Program listings" (as the Smithsonian calls them) seem to be print outs of the programs for verification purposes.

The process of entering was indeed handwritten, on specially printed sheets of paper that was then handed to a punchcard operator to create the cards (again according to the Smithsonian), But the stack of paper is clearly not those sheets as it is form-feed printer paper.

It is completely accurate that Margaret Hamilton lead a team, so while there are inaccuracies I'd say this not as much of a lie as just a combination of confused concepts,

[–] Kinglink@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

So I'm referring a number of articles that talk about it as "Listings" and "Log files". They come from relatively good sources (Smithsonian magazine) who are interviewing curators of of the Smithsonian who claim to have "Those listings" in the picture. They do however refer to it as "program listings" and then just "Listings" in the article. So who knows.

That being said I don't agree with your saying "Well she led a team"... yeah she led a team, that's like Elon Musk saying "I made a Tesla" when really he hired hundreds/thousands of people who made the Tesla. This is someone making an our right lie, there is no reason for it not to say "She and her team" or something along those lines.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] gedhrel@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I don't know where you get "listing" = "logging". It's a term (apparently archaic, today I learnt I'm old) for the text of a program.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] tobier@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (2 children)

The listings are the source code in printable form, what are you talking about? https://stackoverflow.com/questions/59678641/what-is-meant-by-listings-for-your-program

Stop spreading false information about things you know nothing about.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] phareous@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago (3 children)

She didn’t write all of that, she had a team of programmers working under her

[–] SeaJ@lemm.ee 9 points 2 years ago (1 children)

She was the first software engineer who was hired for the project and did write a good chunk of the code. She was more than someone who simply delegates and leads. Hell, she is the one who coined the term software engineer. She played a hell of a role in the history of software development. Let's not try to diminish that.

[–] RogueTyre@lemmy.fmhy.ml 8 points 2 years ago (1 children)

He isn't trying to diminish but these misleading exaggerated titles are pretty annoying and confusing at times.

[–] SeaJ@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago

I agree that the title is misleading but simply saying she was the one directing the team without also mentioning that she absolutely did write a chunk of that is also misleading and diminishes her contribution to the code.

[–] Akulagr@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

Similar to what happened with the first image of a black hole. The whole thing was somehow attributed to one lady in the press. Turns out, it was a whole team of scientists working together to achieve that.

[–] Rachelhazideas@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The problem isn't that the whole thing was attributed to one lady. The problem was how quickly people were to discredit her and minimize her role, something that was guaranteed to never be a problem if she were a man.

Funny how the credibility of male scientists and engineers are never questioned in posts like these, and yet becomes a hot topic when that person happens to be a woman.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Siegfried@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

Et al of the world, assemble!

[–] Shardikprime@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Yeah people come on this is like attributing all the code for open ai to the PM

[–] rambaroo@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

No it isn't, unless you think PMs are programmers. She was the lead developer and created the foundation for the software, then drove the project home. She wasn't a non-technical person writing requirements for engineers to work on.

[–] EmoDuck@sh.itjust.works 8 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Really like her white and gold dress

[–] flambonkscious@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 years ago

Beautifully, perfectly evil... Well, played, you devious swine!

[–] hjeremy@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago

Did you know that programs for the Apollo guidance computer were woven, by hand, in to Core Rope Memory modules?

[–] witx@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

And clickbait arrives on lemmy

[–] Anarch157a@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Including comments on the code with expressions like "Crank the silly thing arround", "see if he's lying", "off to see the wizard" and a sub-routine called "burnbaby". More here: https://www.sciencealert.com/the-code-that-took-astronauts-to-the-moon-is-now-on-github

She's definitely a legend.

[–] coys25@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

That is cool. There is really wild stuff in here, like in the landing guidance equations

		TC	BANKCALL	# TEMPORARY, I HOPE HOPE HOPE
		CADR	STOPRATE	# TEMPORARY, I HOPE HOPE HOPE
[–] Beardsley@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

If I was an Astronaut, I think I'd reconsider going up if someone told me there was even one "I Hope" in the math.

"Are you sure about that Margaret?"
"Who the fuck knows, Buzz, I'm doing my fucking best, okay?!"

[–] Marduk73@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Amazing. Punch cards are before my time but did she have to plot out the code before creating punch cards? I'm wondering about the " by hand " part of it.

[–] jesterraiin@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

Woooooow... So good to finally learn it after seeing it reaching Reddit's main page some dozen or two times already. Wooooooooooooooow....

[–] Iron_Lynx@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Imagine having to look for the missing semicolon in there.

[–] troyunrau@lemmy.ca 0 points 2 years ago (3 children)

It's probably written in Fortran66 or similar. No semicolons, but so many line numbers...

[–] ThatBaldFella@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (2 children)

It's written in assembly. You can check out the source code on GitHub.

[–] Hypersapien@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

For people unfamiliar with assembly, it's one step up from raw 1s and 0s. Just vaguely human readable abbreviations for given sets of 1s and 0s. There are no built in loops or if statements, you have to build all that shit yourself from scratch every time you want to use one. And there's exactly one built in variable you can use called the register

[–] troyunrau@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Oh that's so hardcore

edit: looking at the git repo, it looks like it was a team of seven, and she was the lead. So it isn't all her code. Still super impressive :)

[–] Revan343@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 years ago

The other big notable thing for assembly is that it isn't portable. Assembly is very different for every processor architecture, unlike something like C where you may have to make some adjustments between an x86 vs ARM proc, in assembly you're basically rewriting it from scratch

[–] Revan343@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 years ago

Lol Fortran; it was written in Apollo Guidance Computer assembly; I frankly wouldn't be surprised if she knew Mel Kaye

The story of Mel, for the uninitiated

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Yoz@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

These people should have millions of followers instead we follow kardashians. No wonder the world is going to end😥

[–] PissinSelfNdriveway@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

She did computer stuff..... She's smart enough to not fuck with anything that has followers.

[–] jerrimu@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

Hate to tell you, but like most people who do computer stuff still use social media. I mean the linux kernel has it's own lemmy instance.

[–] jafo@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Also worth remembering: The Apollo guidance computer had less compute power than a USB charger. That thing sent us to the moon. https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/a30916315/usb-c-charger-apollo-11-computer/

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] thawed_caveman@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

None of you better call yourselves nerds, THIS is a nerd.

[–] DogMuffins@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 2 years ago

She's amazing.

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Wouldn't it have worked better if she wrote it into the computer? 🤔

[–] CitizenKong@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (2 children)

The title is a bit misleading, this is a printout of the code that she indeed wrote into the computer first.

[–] Underwaterbob@lemm.ee 1 points 2 years ago

She also had a team of engineers who I'm sure deserve at least some of the credit. This title is bunk.

[–] Eheran@lemmy.fmhy.ml 0 points 2 years ago (4 children)

If it was printed later or written on punch cards... how much code are we actually looking at?

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] IanAtCambio@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Isn't this Jack Black's mom?

[–] Marine_Mustang@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

That was Judith Love Cohen.

load more comments
view more: next ›