this post was submitted on 22 Feb 2025
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Enough Musk Spam

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[–] jsomae@lemmy.ml 124 points 19 hours ago (4 children)

Teenage programmers can understand legacy code. These ones didn't. Don't dis teen coders.

[–] geogeogeo@lemmy.world 2 points 4 hours ago

The issue isn't inherently age it's just time and experience, understanding different coding patterns and paradigms that have changed over the years etc. Even someone who's been coding every day from ages 14-20 can't have the same knowledge and experience as someone who's been working with software since the 90s or earlier. Granted, there will always be brilliant people who even when lacking experience are more talented and skillful than maybe the majority, but that is uncommon. I'm only in my late 20s. And I remember in college there was a huge diversity of skills, from "are you sure this career path is really a good idea for you?" To "holy hell how did you do all of that in one hackathon?" But even for those really smart folks, they aren't just going to inherently understand all the different ways to organize and structure code, all the conventions that exist, and more importantly why those methods and structures exist and the history that informed them. I'm not saying you need on the ground experience (although, I'd say many people do, as many people can't really internalize things without direct exposure), but there's just not enough time, literally, in the handful of years that is childhood and teenage years to absorb all that history.

Anyway, what I'm getting at is that, yes, I agree that the problem isn't inherently about being teenagers but I do think it's a valid criticism that it's kind of ridiculous to have such young folks leading this kind of project given it's literally impossible for them to have the same amount of experience as software vets. It's also valid that young people are capable of seeing things in very new ways, since they aren't weighed down by al that history. But that's why diversity is useful especially for such a monumental project as this.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

I think it makes sense that people who don't have actual experience in making projects in a specific language won't be aware of details such as the value 0 being the default in a certain kind of field in a certain language which makes it a good flag for "data unknown".

This is not a problem specific of teenage programmers - it is natural for just about everybody to not really know the ins and outs of a language and best practices when programming with it, when they just learned it and haven't actually been using it in projects for a year or two at least.

What's specific to teenagers (and young coders in general) is that:

  • They're very unlikely to have programmed with COBOL for a year or two, mainly because people when they start tend to gravitate towards "cool" stuff, which COBOL hasn't been for 4 decades.
  • They haven't been doing software engineering for long enough to have realized the stuff I just explained above - in their near-peak Dunning-Krugger expertise in the software engineering field, they really do think that learning to program in a given language is the same as having figured out how to properly use it.
[–] Malfeasant@lemm.ee 1 points 3 hours ago

I've been surprised multiple times by coworkers who don't know the significance of midnight January 1st 1970... We support an embedded Linux device, among other things...

[–] spooky2092@lemmy.blahaj.zone 20 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (1 children)

How many teens you think can actually read and understand legacy languages like FORTRAN and COBOL? Let alone a complex codebase written in them?

I studied COBOL a bit in college and it's not exactly hard to read short snippets if you understand other languages, but good luck wrapping your head around anything remotely complex and actually understand what it is doing without having someone who understands the language. Hell, 15-20 years on and multiple languages later, my eyes still cross trying to read and grok COBOL. The people supporting those old code bases get paid well for a reason ...

[–] tempest@lemmy.ca 18 points 11 hours ago

Learning to COBOL is not itself that hard.

Understanding decades of "business" logic is.

It isn't WHAT it is doing, it's WHY it is doing it that makes these systems labyrinthian.

Also afaik they don't get paid that well which is part of the problem.

[–] JustEnoughDucks@feddit.nl 55 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

I don't know how many teenage programmers you have interacted with recently, but they are generally just learning the basics, learning core concepts, experimenting, etc...

There is a huge gap between making small, sometimes very cool and creative even, projects and understanding a giant legacy codebase in a language that is not taught anymore. I mean, even university grads often have trouble learning legacy code, much less in COBOL.

You wouldn't say your average teenage cook could make a gourmet meal for a house of 50 people 😅 not a dis, just they haven't had the time to get to greybeard level yet

[–] xor@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

this is why, if they heavily modified the code in such a short time and they couldn’t understand it: it proves there was a previous data breach and they’re just installing the pre-written patches… the smoking gun that i can’t explain to anyone

[–] Hackworth@lemmy.world 6 points 13 hours ago

That makes way too much sense.