this post was submitted on 22 Feb 2025
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Enough Musk Spam

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[–] LeFantome@programming.dev 17 points 2 hours ago

The actual payment system stops payments automatically at age 115 and requires manual verification to restart. The database that is being reported is not even a report of who is getting paid.

This is just dramatic, public evidence of the arrogance and incompetence of DOGE from down to his racist younglings.

For a while, I thought they would at least be good at technology. This episode shows that even that is not true.

How he chose this elite group of chuckleheads is an eyebrow raiser. Other than racism, they seem to have no credentials at all. I mean, on brand for this administration I guess.

[–] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 16 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Jesus fucking christ the interns who have neither seen nor heard of COBOL have also not encountered the concept of a sentinel value used as a fallback/default.

[–] BeardedGingerWonder@feddit.uk 7 points 1 hour ago

These are the same interns that are pushing code in production, right?

[–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 10 points 5 hours ago (2 children)

They also found that there's people over 200, so that default date thing doesn't really explain it all.

[–] ansiz@lemmy.world 32 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

It's because that explanation isn't correct. The real deal is you just have entries without a death date, so if you ran a query this get super old ages as a result.

Note that isn't a database of payments or even people eligible for them, just a listing of 'everyone' with a SSN. There is a separate master death index. In the old days, wild west kind of stuff people would disappear so the death date would never get entered. Modern days every morgue and funeral home has to legally notify SS when someone dies, there is a specific form and major hell to pay if you don't do it.

[–] BakerBagel@midwest.social 7 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Social Security numbers were first issued in 1937. You would have need someone to be over 110 in 1937 to have an age over 200. I think that it's a combination of birthdays entered wrong plus no official death date.

[–] Madison420@lemmy.world 10 points 3 hours ago

Wouldn't matter anyway the ss admin automatically stops pay and initiates audit for anything over 115.

[–] I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world 24 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago) (2 children)

Also a lot of people between 110 and 150, so I'm sure there is a larger answer.

However, Social Security cuts off at 115, and they supposedly found like 10 million people older than that. Considering there are only ~50m people on Social Security, and the database they were searching wasn't even about current recipients, most people would conclude that there is likely an error in data, rather than immediately jump to fraud. Of course, ketamine is a hell of a drug and Elon is not most people.

[–] NaturalViber@lemmy.world -5 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Lol why bring drugs into this? Specifically ketamine?

[–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 2 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

It's definitely still concerning if the database has a large number of errors. But systematic fraud would be much worse ofc.

[–] funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works 8 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

the database doesn't have to necessarily be accurate if there's other checks - a flag for test data, a system that checks the person is real against another database before dispersing funds etc

[–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 1 points 4 hours ago (2 children)

That's true. Would be better if it was though.

[–] JcbAzPx@lemmy.world 1 points 41 minutes ago

Fixing an archival dataset that doesn't even pertain to people actively receiving benefits is so far down the list of priorities as to be a criminal misuse if resources.

[–] Lyrl@lemm.ee 4 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (1 children)

Someone with the skills and knowledge to clean up 150-year old typographical errors in one particular table in the Social Security database system would probably provide more benefit to the taxpayers covering their salary by doing some other task.

[–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 1 points 2 hours ago (2 children)

It might be better to move to a new database at this point rather than trying to fix the existing one. It won't give immediate benefits but could be helpful down the line.

[–] SabinStargem@lemmings.world 1 points 53 minutes ago

I am hoping California ditches SSN and other identifiers from the US Treasury. That information is no longer safe, so we need a fresh database that is secure from DOGE fuckery, among many other hostile actors.

[–] BeardedGingerWonder@feddit.uk 2 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Or it could cost a fortune and fuck a lot of other processes up.

[–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 1 points 59 minutes ago

That's true

[–] pyre@lemmy.world 19 points 8 hours ago

tbf it's only embarrassing if you're capable of embarrassment.

[–] jsomae@lemmy.ml 96 points 10 hours ago (2 children)

Teenage programmers can understand legacy code. These ones didn't. Don't dis teen coders.

[–] spooky2092@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago) (1 children)

How many teens you think can actually read and understand legacy languages like FORTRAN and COBOL? Let alone a complex codebase written in them?

I studied COBOL a bit in college and it's not exactly hard to read short snippets if you understand other languages, but good luck wrapping your head around anything remotely complex and actually understand what it is doing without having someone who understands the language. Hell, 15-20 years on and multiple languages later, my eyes still cross trying to read and grok COBOL. The people supporting those old code bases get paid well for a reason ...

[–] tempest@lemmy.ca 5 points 2 hours ago

Learning to COBOL is not itself that hard.

Understanding decades of "business" logic is.

It isn't WHAT it is doing, it's WHY it is doing it that makes these systems labyrinthian.

Also afaik they don't get paid that well which is part of the problem.

[–] JustEnoughDucks@feddit.nl 42 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

I don't know how many teenage programmers you have interacted with recently, but they are generally just learning the basics, learning core concepts, experimenting, etc...

There is a huge gap between making small, sometimes very cool and creative even, projects and understanding a giant legacy codebase in a language that is not taught anymore. I mean, even university grads often have trouble learning legacy code, much less in COBOL.

You wouldn't say your average teenage cook could make a gourmet meal for a house of 50 people 😅 not a dis, just they haven't had the time to get to greybeard level yet

[–] xor@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

this is why, if they heavily modified the code in such a short time and they couldn’t understand it: it proves there was a previous data breach and they’re just installing the pre-written patches… the smoking gun that i can’t explain to anyone

[–] Hackworth@lemmy.world 5 points 4 hours ago

That makes way too much sense.

[–] InFerNo@lemmy.ml 16 points 8 hours ago

But but it's BREAKING! With a red light emoji!

[–] ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml 39 points 10 hours ago

Honestly, if you make it to 150 you deserve the money

[–] atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 53 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

I can't wait for them to discover a bunch of people who are 9999 years old next.

[–] ChapulinColorado@lemmy.world 17 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

In the legacy world we just call it the HIGH_DATE constant.

[–] Thorry84@feddit.nl 12 points 9 hours ago

In my experience in the legacy world we have the isHighDate function which not only checks the constant, but also 5 other edge cases where the value isn't HIGH_DATE but should be treated as if it is.

[–] JoYo@lemmy.ml 46 points 11 hours ago

More specifically, they didn't find anyone receiving social security who were 150 years old because they didn't prove that they were receiving anything as that's not the purpose of that database.

[–] AngryishHumanoid@reddthat.com 101 points 13 hours ago (3 children)

In before Musk says "You think the government uses COBOL?!"

[–] sp3tr4l@lemmy.zip 4 points 2 hours ago

Not only do many important government systems ultimately rely on or make heavy use of COBOL...

So do many older private companies.

Like banks. Account balances, transactions.

Its actually quite a serious problem that basically nobody who needs to take seriously actually does.

Basically no one is taught COBOL anymore, but a huge amount of code that undergirds much of what we consider 'modernity' is written in COBOL, and all the older folks that actually know COBOL are retiring.

We're gonna hit a point where the COBOL parts of a system to be altered or maintained, and ... there just isn't anyone who actually knows how to do it.

[–] iAvicenna@lemmy.world 13 points 8 hours ago

He would dismiss COBOL and try to prove that he is a super cool geek with a deep knowledge of DnD and gaming culture. So more like:

"COBOL? Such a language doesn't even exist unless you think Kobolds are real! Hahaha"

[–] FlexibleToast@lemmy.world 82 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

I don't think the government uses COBOL. I know the government uses COBOL.

[–] meliaesc@lemmy.world 7 points 3 hours ago

It doesn't matter what I think or know, the government uses COBOL.

[–] cm0002@lemmy.world 121 points 14 hours ago (4 children)

LMAO watch the US be saved by an inability of Muskys frat bois to understand COBOL

[–] AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world 6 points 5 hours ago

They'd probably just delete the Cobol code since "nobody would use that old stuff anyway".

[–] Souroak@lemmy.sdf.org 29 points 11 hours ago

2016-2020 was the age of too stupid to break everything. Now we're staring down the barrel of "The files are in the computer?" But the entire US government is the computer.

[–] Zorsith@lemmy.blahaj.zone 69 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

I dont even program and i could've told them it was probably a placeholder or default value lol "durrrrrr lot of people in this database were born at the exact same time on the same day in the same year that predates electronic databases, gotta be fraud!!1!1!11"

[–] wise_pancake@lemmy.ca 33 points 12 hours ago

Also predates social security. It's the long con for sure.

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As someone who is working on a project of recreating an enterprise application in a modern tech stack, the legacy code is hard to understand too.

We have something similar in that a ClaimClosedDate is defaulted to 01/01/1900 and if it has that date it means it’s not closed whereas now that would be a nullable field.

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