😉 I'm not sure you've understood, at all, my point. But that's ok. You seem extremely hurt for some reason by the UK, that's ok I'm sorry this happened to you. All I'm trying to explain is that the qualities you dislike in the UK are present all over the EU, and thus your zeal to keep the UK out makes little to no sense.

You have to understand why the EU (and EEC before) was created and formed to understand why, hopefully in the future, the UK will rejoin - despite your objections and hesitation.

Anyways, I wish you a pleasant week. I have work to return to.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Nice attempt at changing your argumentative approach to make it about me and "interesting" that you didn't examine your own motivations in the same way.

The point which you for the 3rd or 4th time now have avoided is that amongst all others members and candidates, uniquelly, the UK has already done it: they went ahead and broke up with the group (a group which they had a history of taking advantage of to begin with, hence all the exceptions) causing damage all around, part of it purposefully.

It's actually the wisest and most rational action for the rest of the group to require trust to be rebuilt that the UK won't simply act in the same way again in before accepting it back - why bring a still disfunctional actor back into a position were they can do the same kind of damage all over again!? - which this being a country rather than a person, means that the social and political culture that caused the population and the power elites there to desire that the country acted as it did, must change.

The EU wasn't formed to understand anything - it's not some kind of Science Collective - the EU was formed for the good of the group, because together we are stronger and better than we are apart, so acting in ways that damage and weaken the whole group is the greatest breach of trust for the rest there is (hence all the talk about how to stop Hungary, whose actions, by the way, make the rest more weary of bringing back an old disruptive member who left acrimoniously).

Whilst I too believe the UK will eventually rejoin the EU because Historically, Culturally and Geographically Britain is European, I think that after what they did it will take decades and the country will have to go through a crisis or two before it has changed enough to be possible to trust it with the powers and responsibilities that come with membership. The stakes here are a lot higher than a book reading club or amateur football, so merely "forgive and forget" isn't really a reasonable option.

Now, since here is now Monday morning, I have got to go work too.

[–] mannycalavera@feddit.uk 1 points 52 minutes ago

The amount of assumptions you're making without addressing or understanding what I'm saying is hilarious 😂.

"interesting" that you didn't examine your own motivations in the same way.

I'm more than happy to say the UK acted in its own interest whilst in the EU (agreeing with your point), that there are hard elements of disruptive right leaning racists in the UK (agreeing with your point), that the UK is unlikely to be accepted back into the EU in the short term (agreeing with your point). However you've asserted that these aspects don't exist (or exist in minor insignificant ways) within EU member states. Hungary aside, the EU has all the above problems that are very real and already disruptive. Far right minority parties winning significant ground in elections, harsh anti immigration rhetoric from all over the continent, significant othering and second class views towards non white Europeans (just look at how Turkish immigrants in the 1950s are treated still to this day), self interested countries vying for their own benefit rather than that of the whole, members being sanctioned by the EU for not following their own rules. None of these things are exclusive to the UK. This is what you don't understand, or are unwilling to understand.

Please, sir, that not everything is a win lose situation and that other people have valid opinions too. If you want to end this with several paragraphs of prognostication not addressing the point then fair enough.

I think, or at least I hope, that we both agree the UK will someday rejoin. But this won't be because it has suddenly become a more European Utopian country acting in the benefit of others (because such a thing doesn't exist). We'll rejoin for political and economic reasons which is how every other country has joined and no other reason. And I think you know that deep down.