Privacy Guides
In the digital age, protecting your personal information might seem like an impossible task. We’re here to help.
This is a community for sharing news about privacy, posting information about cool privacy tools and services, and getting advice about your privacy journey.
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Check out our website at privacyguides.org before asking your questions here. We've tried answering the common questions and recommendations there!
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This community is the "official" Privacy Guides community on Lemmy, which can be verified here. Other "Privacy Guides" communities on other Lemmy servers are not moderated by this team or associated with the website.
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- General guides or software lists are not permitted. Original sources and research about specific topics are allowed as long as they are high quality and factual. We are not providing a platform for poorly-vetted, out-of-date or conflicting recommendations.
Additional Resources:
- EFF: Surveillance Self-Defense
- Consumer Reports Security Planner
- Jonah Aragon (YouTube)
- r/Privacy
- Big Ass Data Broker Opt-Out List
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2 is almost as bad as the all or nothing approach. I argue that while Apple is not trustworthy, they are not incentivized to collect every piece of information about you that they can. Conversely, android is an operating system created by an advertising company specifically to ensure an ongoing corner on their market. Asking the average person to use a DeGoogled OS is akin to telling them to switch to OpenBSD on their desktop.
Completely disagree. You can't use iPhones with anything but iOS. And you can't install any apps Apple hasn't put their fucking rubber stamp and collected taxes on. For that reason, it is not and never will be viable. Not to mention being overpriced and disposable.
Android may be created by an advertising company but they also give you the ability to run whatever OS you want and strip it of Google's proprietary software completely. These days you can install OS like Graphene by simply plugging in your phone and clicking buttons in your browser.
Graphene doesn’t completely strip Google software though, it sandboxes it. You still gotta use the play store to install most apps for example.
I mean the entire thing is "Google software" so I'm not sure what you mean. It strips it of everything that calls Google's servers. It has optional sandboxed Google Play services.
You don't need the Google Play Store, you can install all of those apps with Aurora Store.
I think the point is you’re exaggerating how easy it is for the average person to install and use something like Graphene - people are arguing it’s less that Google allows it and more that white hats have forced it and I don’t think that’s an unfair statement. Like - I’m techy, own a phone running Graphene, and will have to look into the Aurora store - hadn’t heard of it before this!
Apple seems to be pretty privacy forward at the moment and it’s true that they sell hardware more so than software, and WAY moreso than user data. For people who can’t figure out something like Graphene, Apple is certainly a better choice than Googled Android. And I think that’s valuable to be able to tell people in this day and age even if Graphene would be best overall
I'm not. It really is that easy.
But the fact that it's easy isn't the point. The point is that you have that choice. That is not a choice you're allowed with Apple.
I did tell them that, in the parent comment of this thread.
As a GrapheneOS user, and someone who hates apple and would rather not have a phone than bend to apple, and while i agree with most of what you said, i would not expect the majority of the users to be able to install graphene. I don't personally know anyone i would expect to be able to do by themselves. It's easy for you. It wasn't super easy for me, it would be difficult for most people.
I agree. It's just that you said it's easy.
Maybe you were referring to unlocking the phone, which is really easy on stock android if you know how.
The day we don't have the choice anymore is the day i stop using android. Or smart phones at all if the alternative is apple.
Well. Agree to disagree. You literally just plug it in and push buttons in the browser. It's that simple.
Ah, I didn't do it that way... I think. I can't remember. I certainly remember not wanting to because I don't trust that way. Also I use firefox and I doubted it would work. I don't know.
Okay, but you can.
It doesn't, but you can't use Chrome (or any other Chromium browser) for 5 minutes?
Although i use android i really, really don't want Google stuff on my pc. I use android because it's the only viable choice on mobile. But on pc I'll avoid chromium as much a i can. And having installed many roms the hard way before i saw no reason to make an exception.
Plus i don't like the browser doing something like that where i don't know what it's doing. If it was on firefox maybe i would trust it more, but even then...
Do you know what Firefox is doing? Do you know what GrapheneOS is doing? At some point you have to either audit the code yourself or trust it.
Seems a bit paranoid to be unwilling to have any Chromium fork on your PC for 15 minutes but you do you.
This is patently untrue, and a total misrepresentation of the facts. You can install other OSes on a rather small list of Android phones. Furthermore, while the user might just be clicking a few buttons, behind the scenes those buttons put into play a rather complex series of actions that break the protections put into place by Google and phone manufacturers to stop you from doing exactly that.
Saying that Google gives you the ability to install other OSes is like saying Sony gives you the ability to install other OSes on the Playstation. It isn't true, Google never gave you that ability, the technical wizardry of white hat hackers did.
LOL what? No it isn't.
How many iPhones can you install another OS on? That's nothing to do with Android anyway, you'd have to talk to the OEMs and carriers about that, Google lets you do it on their phones.
No, it doesn't. You don't know what you're talking about.
No, it's not. There's a toggle that Google put in the stock settings specifically for that purpose.
Kid, you've no fucking idea what I know, so stop with this adolescent shit. Your whole post is nothing more than you saying "nuh uh" to everything I wrote. If you're going to argue about stuff, at least take the time to actually be fucking informed about what you're talking about. I've been jailbreaking iPhones and taking apart Android since before you were old enough to even know what XDA is.
I know you know nothing about this.
...and what do you think you wrote? I didn't see any evidence? Get a Pixel (or other similarly unlockable device), go into the settings and look for the "OEM unlocking" toggle. There's your evidence. Maybe you can learn something new today.
You've no idea how old I am.
90%+ apps require Google play services, which basically allows them to know every app you use, and potentially more.
There’s also a surge in apps implementing integrity checks, which makes you unable to run certain apps entirely with a custom ROM
Google has the exact same policy of getting a large cut of each payment you make…
Just like Ulrich thinking installing graphene being easy is just his experience, that is just your experience. I don't have a single app that needs google play and that's one thing i find it easy.
Whatever would need it i just use their website. Sure they try a lot to annoy you into using their useless app but it's doable and becomes an incentive to find a better service.
You can find your way around, but you'll spend twice the amount of time doing the same tasks that you could easily do on apps. Also, bye bye bank apps, or any Android games
If you don't use your phone a lot, understandable, but for most people, nah, not doable
I use my phone a lot lot. It's a terrible addiction. But yeah, I'm not the usual user and my needs are different.
But I disagree with "spending twice the amount of time". I've never seen that except on evil stuff that just handicaps the website on mobile for no reason other than "I'll force you to use my app through pain", when the desktop site is as good or even better than the app. And if it's one of those companies, to me it's a red flag. It's not a service I'm using, it's a company trying to abuse me as far as they can and I'll be dumb if I continue on that abusive relationship and not break up.
But ending an abusive relationship is a personal choice. But to me they are inflicting that pain on them selves.
Oh, a good example is reddit. The mobile website experience is painful for no reason other than to force me to use their shitty app to steal more from me.
And what do you know? That was a red flag and that is a company I should have tried my best to avoid for that reason and many others. And now here I am on Lemmy, happier, and not forced a shitty app down my throat.
No they don't. More like 5%. What % of Apple apps require Apple services?
https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answer/112622
Apple takes 30%
Google gets 0% of income of apps installed outside of the Google Play Store.
My 5% was referring to Google Play Services dependency.
and what % of apps are installed outside of the Google Play Store...?
They push warning messages all over the OS to deter users from doing that...
Why does that matter? The point is you can do it. Personally 100% of mine are installed that way using Aurora, Obtainium, Droidify or Accrescent. Android allows you that freedom and always has, Apple fights vigilantly to ensure you never have that choice.
They are not "all over the OS". There is a pop-up message that asks you if you want to allow the app to be used as an installer. That's it.
If the point is that you can do it, then yea, you can also sideload apps on iOS. It's an immense pain, limited to X apps, but you can, and you could technically pay with 0% fee...
iirc there was more but alright
If you actually look into this, you really can't. Yes, you can install alternative app stores but they still require Apple's stamp of approval, they still require an Apple developer account, along with $100/yr subscriptions, and they still require "only" 27% cut of revenue, and all of that is only available in the EU.
That's not the only way. You can sideload unapproved apps.
Literally never seen that before but I assume you have to break the OS to do it.
No, don't need to. Just sign up with a free dev account, and plug your phone to your computer.
It's still an annoying process because you have to do this once a week but it's still something that works - a bit -
That's like saying since computers come with Windows pre-installed, Microsoft gave you the ability to install Linux. Computers are agnostic to what runs on them, they're inherently neutral unless made on the deeper level to prohibit side loading. Like a lot of Androids and all iPhones do.
They don't give you the ability but they also don't actively impede you from installing something else. If computers were agnostic then you could install whatever you wanted on an iPhone but you can't because Apple locks them down.
I would argue that, out of the two smartphone OSes available, iOS is the better choice for most people. They’ve done far more than Google at making sure nobody (even them), can access your data without your permission by putting encryption into a lot of their services.
In contrast, Google wants, and gets, access to everything about your life. And they’re more than willing to share that data with the government, or anyone that will pay them. And while the best option would be deGoogled Android, that’s something that most people aren’t going to be willing to use, even if they’re wising up to the need to take privacy seriously.
Privacy isn’t an all-or-nothing. Usually it’s better for each person to consider if they really need fully secure, or if a iPhone that does far more than the bare minimum at protecting their privacy is enough for them
See my other reply.