MeanwhileOnGrad
"Oh, this is calamity! Calamity! Oh no, he's on the floor!"
Welcome to MoG!
Meanwhile On Grad
Documenting hate speech, conspiracy theories, apologia/revisionism, and general tankie behaviour across the fediverse. Memes are welcome!
What is a Tankie?
Alternatively, a detailed blog post about Tankies.
(caution of biased source)
Basic Rules:
Sh.itjust.works Instance rules apply! If you are from other instances, please be mindful of the rules. — Basically, don't be a dick.
Hate-Speech — You should be familiar with this one already; practically all instances have the same rules on hate speech.
Apologia — (Using the Modern terminology for Apologia) No Defending, Denying, Justifying, Bolstering, or Differentiating authoritarian acts or endeavours, whether be a Pro-CCP viewpoint, Stalinism, Islamic Terrorism or any variation of Tankie Ideology.
Revisionism — No downplaying or denying atrocities past and present. Calling Tankies shills, foreign/federal agents, or bots also falls under this rule. Extremists exist. They are real. Do not call them shills or fake users as it handwaves their extremism.
Tankies can explain their views but may be criticised or attacked for them. Any slight infraction on the rules above will immediately earn a warning and possibly a ban.
Off-topic Discussion — Do not discuss unrelated topics to the point of derailing the thread. Stay focused on the direct content of the post as opposed to arguing.
You'll be warned if you're violating the instance and community rules. Continuing poor behaviour after being warned will result in a ban or removal of your comments. Bans typically only last 24 hours, but each subsequent infraction will double the amount. Depending on the content, the ban time may be increased. You may request an unban at any time.
view the rest of the comments
"Traditional conservatism" is this tribalism. The tribalists are not "so-called conservatives." They're what the word has meant, since its very modern inception, circa the French revolution.
So yes, we are both describing people pushing a made-up golden era, which they will tear society apart to allegedly pursue... but that's not distinct from people claiming they're preserving the common-sense soul of et cetera. That's what they've always said. They're just plain lying. The unmistakable pattern of their behavior, independent of these claims, is the consolidation of power for the automatically righteous, over a permanent underclass who are lucky to fight over scraps.
When you find yourself writing things like 'progressives are the real conservatives,' step back and ask what the fuck you're doing with words.
First, all humans are tribal, not merely conservatives, so I don’t think this observation is very astute or relevant. Secondly, I definitely didn’t say progressives are conservative, so I have no idea where you got that from.
Only some humans use tribalism to decide what's real.
'Everyone's tribal' is undermining the ability to say anything. Like I can't be talking about people who denied there was a global plague, even as they gargled their own lungs - because I used words you insist apply to everyone.
This is an attack on meaning. You sound confused that anyone could possibly paraphrase what you explicitly wrote - like calling liberals conservatives makes perfect sense, but calling liberals progressives, well, you have no idea where that came from. What are you talking about?
I am trying to defend meaning from people who are willing to distort words to mean anything that matches their current political agenda.
If you had approached this conversation with more authentic curiosity I might have been willing to explain the widely understood difference between moderate liberals and progressives which is important to understand the point I was making. But at this point you don’t seem very genuinely interested in what I’m trying to explain. So I recommend using Google to understand the basic terms here before proceeding.
Ironically, your unquestioned assumption that liberals and conservatives are two mutually exclusive and opposing ideologies rather than adjacent and even overlapping ones is, itself, a product of the tribalist thinking you’ve criticized.
You're pushing the myth of little-c conservatism, and you're bad at it. If you genuinely wanted to explain a distinction then you presumably would have done so instead of scoffing that you don't understand. Like the problem of saying 'by conservatives I mean liberals!' is an additional adjective.
You don't get to condescend to me about argumentum ad webster when I keep specifying tribalists and loyalism and you pretend that's the same as having an ingroup. You just toss out that "all humans are tribal," as if that remotely resembles what I'm saying about a specific pattern of behavior, and then you dismiss your own wishy-washy assertion as irrelevant. Zero self-reflection. All attack, no defense.
Meanwhile:
There are clearly people who only view the world through loyalty to hierarchy. That's overwhelmingly described as conservatism, even when people aren't fully cognizant of why they're calling it that. You must acknowledge that's less of an ask than insisting tankies are right-wing. That one-dimensional horseshoe thinking completely misses how they're never gonna get along with right-wing conservatives, because those pricks aren't their ingroup. Nothing else matters, in their worldview.