this post was submitted on 23 Apr 2025
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Fuck Cars

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A place to discuss problems of car centric infrastructure or how it hurts us all. Let's explore the bad world of Cars!

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[–] tasho@lemmy.blahaj.zone 29 points 1 week ago (1 children)

cute! I love informative comics like this.

people always jump to assuming creating an infrastructure that requires less reliance on cars means a flat out ban on cars when really we just desperately need more alternatives to being stuck on the car-only model. of course, rural areas and disabilities and such will mean that cars are sometimes necessary, but there's so much that a fully functional public transit system can do!!

[–] ZDL@mstdn.social 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

@tasho @grue As soon as they leap to the assumption that improving public transit means banning cars I know they're arguing from bad faith. (Or they're stupid. Either way they're not worth talking with.)

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[–] kimara@sopuli.xyz 24 points 1 week ago (2 children)

One addition to this is also winter upkeep, which is very relevant in Finland.

People like to talk about "winter cycling", because it's somehow so much different from "every other season cycling". Mainly it comes down to winter upkeep; snow plowing and such. Then some people complain how nobody rides in the winter and they shouldn't use too much budget for it.

It would be fun to see people talk about "winter driving". How much we actually spend making driving possible during the winter.

[–] duhbasser@lemm.ee 11 points 1 week ago

Where I live in the US that’s in the millions, hundreds of millions even. Also, if that budget dries up then they don’t plow shit. They’ll usually get an emergency fund but it takes a few days, while it’s snowing…

It's not just spending money. In my city, we're poisoning the groundwater with road salt to support winter driving. One well near me has sodium levels in the water high enough that the water utility has issued a no-drink advisory for people with hypertension.

[–] glowie@infosec.pub 18 points 1 week ago (2 children)

How does a theoretical case of not having insurance companies make a car non-driveable?

[–] 52fighters@lemmy.sdf.org 33 points 1 week ago (2 children)

It is illegal to drive without auto insurance. Technically you could do it anyway but a single accident could cost you $70,000 or $80,000 easily. Most reasonable people don't want that kind of risk.

[–] vorpuni@jlai.lu 6 points 1 week ago

Try adding a zero or two to that estimate. If you end up killing people without insurance your life's over, with insurance if you weren't in the wrong you're mostly fine.

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[–] psx_crab@lemmy.zip 18 points 1 week ago (6 children)

Because auto-insurance is a requirement in some country.

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[–] EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com 18 points 1 week ago (1 children)

"Cars aren't a symbol of freedom. They are a symbol of dependence in places designed to be prisons without them."

Paraphrased from a book I read (sorry, it was 10+ years ago)

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[–] psx_crab@lemmy.zip 18 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Ain't that true. As a car mechanic(in asia), i used to not think about it for a long time, but lately the cost of owning a car seems to bug me to no end. Often in busy day, someone will come in with a breakdown which might take a few hours to do because of the workload, and the reply i get from them is "can you do mine first? I'm in a hurry and i need the car, without it i can't get anywhere". Or someone came in with a badly maintained car, where they have to delay a lot of simple but crucial repair because they're short on money. Or ignore an oil leak while topping up oil constantly because they have no time to get it fixed, which sometimes cost even more in total.

I just paid nearly 1/4 of my monthly salary to fix my 20 years old car, and that's only for the part. Can't get a used car because i need the cash, can't get a new car because i don't wanna have more mortgage. It's crippling if you're poor. It's simply bullshit when people use the poor to justify car-centric development.

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[–] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 15 points 1 week ago (5 children)

Can confirm.

My car has been "on loan" to my parents for a year. I'm lucky to live in an area with decent public trans, but my sense of freedom is definitely vastly diminished.

[–] SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org 11 points 1 week ago (1 children)

You have public trans? Can you just like rent them for a while or how does it work?

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[–] Washedupcynic@lemm.ee 9 points 1 week ago

I grew up with great public transit, and having access to a bicycle, (NYC.) In my 20s I realized that attempting to own and maintain a car would be so expensive that I would not be able to save money for the future. I ride my bike everywhere. If I want to go somewhere more than 50 miles away, or where transit doesn't go, I rent a car. I rent a car maybe 2x a year tops. Depending on how long I'm renting the car I probably spend $400 a year on rentals + insurance. My last bike I had for 20 years. Cost me $1400 brand new, spread that cost out over 20 years, owning the bike cost me $70 a year. It was easy to repair myself, and the tools to repair it were inexpensive to purchase. Fuck cars indeed.

[–] spankmonkey@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago (4 children)

Owning or renting a home has the same requirements of dependency on multiple companies. Sure, in a city or large town or even some.small towns we could live without cars if we built the infrastructure.

But there will always be rural areas where cars make sense. Insurance would be a lot cheaper without all the city folk driving...

[–] Little_mouse@lemmy.ca 22 points 1 week ago (6 children)

In Japan they have rail lines that seamlessly integrate with the metro system of large cities.

And even if cars for rural users is necessary, their driving experience will be much smoother if all the other people have good access to transit.

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[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 14 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Owning or renting a home has the same requirements of dependency on multiple companies

Are you suggesting people go without homes? And that's analogous to going without a car?

Maybe you're really radical and want free public housing like people want free public transit, but that's far outside the overton window.

[–] spankmonkey@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago

I am saying home ownership, the freedom that goes along with it, and the need to rely on multiple companies is the same and both have a different context in rural areas. So does renting and most other things in life.

Plus relying on public transportation means trading companies for government, which in theory should be better but then again government decisions tend to be strongly influenced by those companies which is how we ended up in the car centric urban hellhole that we are in now.

The comic comes across as dismissive of a ton of nuance that apply to large areas of the US to make a point that applies to urban areas.

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[–] Demdaru@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago (4 children)

...i have slight beef with that.

  1. We made cars more complicated than they need to be due to electronic systems and all that. I don't say that we should simply go back, that's dumb. But I cannot help but wonder if a line of simple, less advanced ICE cars promoted on their ease of maintenance wouldn't get popular with, for example, rural folks. After all, being able to fix the beast yourself would lover your costs a lot.
  2. Walkable cities are great, I know cause I live in one. My city (or town?) has around 7 km length (at least the parts that matter). Distance an average person can go in ~70, maybe 80 minutes by foot. But if I wanted to hit the relatively nearby lake or beach, getting there by foot is another story. And yeah, bikes exists and make it easier but if I need to hit another city that is 60km from here...yeah.
  3. Author also forgot that these companies won't fail, because these are not "one and only" of each in the world. Each contry, hell, each county has multiple of them. It's highly unrealistic for them to all fail at the same time.
[–] Lv_InSaNe_vL@lemmy.world 13 points 1 week ago (2 children)

We didn't make cars more complicated because "of the electronics" or "because we had to".

Car companies make cars more complicated because they make huge amounts of money from warranties, maintenance that you can't do yourself for some reason, and of course the leases.

Cars being as complicated and impossible to work on as they are today is because line must go up. Everything else is propaganda.

[–] andros_rex@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago

maintenance that you can’t do yourself for some reason

Also helps hide shoddy low quality parts.

The condensers on 2017-2021 Honda Civics are basically guaranteed to fail. There’s a warranty, but the only people who can open up the AC are the dealerships, who have been trained to find some speck of dust to justify denying the warranty.

It really fucking sucks - I’d love the option of being able to make some money on doordash, but the “reliable” Honda Civic I bought gets up to 100+ F with the air on full blast.

[–] qarbone@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

That's...effectively what they said. The added electronics make it infeasible for normal people to maintain their own vehicles. They never speculated on why the electronics were added.

The way you came at them makes it seem like they're provided a scapegoat when they didn't.

Edit: I regret stepping into an arena against a pedant with an axe to grind.

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[–] ivanovsky@lemm.ee 5 points 1 week ago
  1. Also implied that other methods of transportation are devoid of failure points.

Sure wish I lived in a walkable city though 😢

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[–] RymrgandsDaughter@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago (2 children)

true but America hates public transportation

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[–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 7 points 1 week ago (7 children)

This doesn't make any sense. The only way to move around without depending on other companies is by walking, and there's no way that can replace cars, trains, buses, bicycles, etc.

Not depending on anyone else is not a sensible goal. We live in a society.

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[–] bitwolf@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Thank you for wording it so eloquently.

I learned quickly the car took away my freedom. I needed a car to get a job.

I was suddenly forced to have a job to pay an auto loan. By the time I paid the loan I needed a new car as the first broke down.

Then I needed my job to pay for the 2nd car. If I lived closer to the city with public transport I likely would have never gotten a car in the first place.

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[–] callyral@pawb.social 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Also, people younger than the legal age for driving are unable to get around safely and independently if they live somewhere car-dependent. I know this from personal experience (although where I live car dependency is not the only problem of course)

[–] Flisty@mstdn.social 4 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

@callyral @grue don't forget disabled people. Cars are always touted as the solution for disability but there are *many* disabilities which completely remove driving as a possibility (blindness, epilepsy, many learning disabilities, many physical disabilities ... And generally being elderly, if we're honest) and car dependence leaves you entirely reliant on a chauffeur of some kind for any and every time you want to leave the house.

[–] 5in1k@lemm.ee 4 points 1 week ago (5 children)

How do I get to and then around Michigan’s Upper Peninsula? I don’t want to go be in cities like at all? What’s the plan for that?

[–] grue@lemmy.world 19 points 1 week ago

You use a car.

Do not mistake cars being appropriate for the 20% of population that's rural for them being appropriate for the 80% of population that's urban, 'cause they're not.

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[–] Rin@lemm.ee 4 points 1 week ago (8 children)

With a car, you can fix it yourself if you are determined enough. However, if you're using public transport, the same arguments apply + now things are enirely out of your control. There's no way in hell the public transport company will let you tinker with their broken stuff. The insurance company can pull out of them at any time for any reason. The company can go bankrupt, etc.

i feel like independance and not having to rely on someone would work better as an argument for the car.

[–] Deme@sopuli.xyz 16 points 1 week ago (7 children)

Consider a bicycle. Very low maintenance, simple to fix, no need for fuel, unlimited range. Complete independence, with the sole exception of winter maintenance of paths, but that's also a problem for cars and public transport.

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[–] umbraroze@slrpnk.net 14 points 1 week ago

In the past 25 years I've used public transport, I think the bus broke down once while I was aboard, and I think it ended up in the newspaper. I think it's a good thing public transport folks spend a lot of time maintaining the vehicles and especially on regular preventive maintenance.

I can barely fix my bicycle, so I don't want to tinker with the bus company's broken stuff. I trust that stuff to the certified mechanics they employ. Doubly so for trains, that's for some serious mechanics only.

[–] MBech 14 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Most public transit in Europe is government backed, they're not just going bankrupt or lose their insurence, and I don't know why I'd tinker with a broken bus, the company has people for that.

[–] wintermute@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Exactly. Also, public transport is a system. Even if the vehicle you are currently traveling in breaks down, there's usually replacements and alternatives to get to the same destination.

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[–] Madzielle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

No matter how determined I was to work on my car, it didn't matter. That shit sucks, is hard to do, especially if you don't have previous experience.

Also, cars today aren't roomy 1990's (or before) engines. They pack it so tight in there, with the need to specialized tools and knowledge.

Cars have become increasingly hard to work on oneself. Especially as computers and mechanical engines have been fused together.

I'd rather have my bike with a lane, or a sidewalk, lined with trees, than have stroads with rubber dust, smog, and noise, uninhabitable to pedestrians.

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