this post was submitted on 04 Jun 2025
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World won’t forget Tiananmen Square, US and Taiwan say on 36th anniversary of massacre (www.theguardian.com)
submitted 6 days ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world
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Date of 4 June remains one of China’s strictest taboos, with government using increasingly sophisticated tools to censor its discussion

There is no official death toll but activists believe hundreds, possibly thousands, were killed by China’s People’s Liberation Army in the streets around Tiananmen Square, Beijing’s central plaza, on 4 June 1989.

The date of 4 June remains one of China’s strictest taboos, and the Chinese government employs extensive and increasingly sophisticated resources to censor any discussion or acknowledgment of it inside China. Internet censors scrub even the most obscure references to the date from online spaces, and activists in China are often put under increased surveillance or sent on enforced “holidays” away from Beijing.

New research from human rights workers has found that the sensitive date also sees heightened transnational repression of Chinese government critics overseas by the government and its proxies.

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[–] Krono@lemmy.today 124 points 6 days ago (53 children)

As an American I think it's helpful to put this into some sort of perspective.

Things the US won't forget:

  • Tiananmen Square (thousands dead)

Things the US will forget:

  • Korean War (3mil civilian dead)

  • Vietnam War (2mil civilian dead)

  • Iraqi War (1mil civilian dead)

  • Violent overthrow of East Timor (widely considered a genocide)

  • Violent overthrow of Afghanistan (twice, over 1 mil dead)

  • Violent overthrow of Nicaragua

  • Violent overthrow of Grenada

  • Violent overthrow of Panama

  • Violent overthrow of Libya

  • Coup d'etat of Guatemala

  • Coup d'etat of Iran

  • Failed Coup d'etat of Syria

  • Failed Coup d'etat of Indonesia

  • Many failed Coup d'etat attempts on Cuba

  • Coup d'etat of Congo

  • Coup d'etat of Laos

  • Coup d'etat of the Dominican Republic

  • Coup d'etat of Iraq

  • Coup d'etat of Brazil

  • Successful Coup d'etat of Indonesia (1 mil dead)

  • Coup d'etat of Chile

  • Multiple Coup d'etat of Bolivia

  • Coup d'etat of Haiti

  • Multiple Coup d'etat attempts on Venezuela

  • Coup d'etat of Palestine

  • Mass civilian casualties, destabilization of many governments, people subject to a lifetime of torture without a trial, all under the War on Terror

This list could be so much longer, but I gotta get to work.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 33 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (7 children)

Things the US will forget:

Korean War (3mil civilian dead)

Vietnam War (2mil civilian dead)

Iraqi War (1mil civilian dead)

Imagine thinking that the US has forgotten any of these when they're a constantly pressure on the cultural zeitgeist even literal decades later. Or, for that matter, that the Korean War is in any way comparable.

Violent overthrow of Afghanistan (twice, over 1 mil dead)

Twice? Christ, tell me you aren't talking about the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Not to mention that the 'overthrow' of 'Afghanistan' the second time would rely on recognizing the Taliban, and not the democratically-oriented Northern Alliance which was fighting them at the time, as the legitimate government of Afghanistan.

[–] Cataphract@lemmy.ml 8 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Not trying to be confrontational or pedantic (there's enough bickering in here) but it's important to state that the Korean War is quite literally called "The Forgotten War". In fact, it's more important to point out that it wasn't even a War, but considered a "police action" that claimed the lives of up to 3 million civilians (link).

Council on Foreign Affairs

Truman acted without seeking congressional authorization either in advance or in retrospect. He instead justified his decision on his authority as commander in chief. The move dramatically expanded presidential power at the expense of Congress, which eagerly cooperated in the sacrifice of its constitutional prerogatives.

Robert A. Taft of Ohio, one of the leading Republicans on Capitol Hill at the time, took to the Senate floor on June 28 to argue that “there is no legal authority for what he [Truman] has done.” Nor could Truman argue that the Korean conflict didn’t constitute war in a constitutional sense, even if he did downplay the significance of his decision. (At a press conference on June 29, Truman denied the country was at war, prompting a journalist to ask, “would it be correct…to call this a police action?” Truman answered simply, “Yes.”

Truman in the end acted because he believed, contrary to what the framers envisioned and the historical record showed, that as commander-in-chief he had the authority to order U.S. troops into combat.... Truman was able to establish the precedent that presidents can take the country to war, though, because members of Congress were unwilling, Taft’s complaints notwithstanding, to defend their constitutional power from executive encroachment.

You can't look at those statements and not make parallels to what's going on in America today with the executive branch trying to sequester even more power. Ironically just recently saw a pretty decent video on the war by Mr. Beat

The War Americans Forgot About

edit: forgot an S

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[–] foggianism@lemmy.world 12 points 5 days ago

Add to the list the US support of the Israeli war crimes currently going on in Gaza. Just yesterday they vetoed a ceasefire and delivery of aid proposition in the UN.

[–] Gsus4@mander.xyz 19 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

Most of that looks right, but

Violent overthrow of East Timor (widely considered a genocide)

Ok, this was Indonesia, with murican quiet assent, but still, don't give other countries a pass on these things to make them look clean.

Many of these also involved the local elites going to the US for help. e.g. The draft UN resolution for the no-fly zone in Lybia was produced by the Arab League and backed by the African Union, which pressured russia and China not to veto it.

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[–] CatDogL0ver@lemmy.world 33 points 5 days ago (1 children)

This is just my personal experience:

~I was talking to a few young Chinese. They were after born after the massacre happened.~

"Why are Hong Kong people are so full of themselves and rebellious? They think they are better? (Derogatory comments....", cheating among themselves, happily.

I couldn't help and interrupted, "Some young promising Hong Kong students were murdered, beaten and kidnapped under the mainland China. You can't blame them for not being defensive."

Immediately they resorted to their memorised response, "Do you have any resources to back up what you said? The official death count was zero."

Of course there was no "official" news resources. China suppresses the news media.

"It is the same as Tiananmen massacre. You won't find any "official resources " but everyone knows people were killed."

Another one retorted, "The official number is zero. What official resources you have to backup your claim?"

It was useless to talk anymore at that moment. I left. My encounter probably would be on their "report."

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[–] Timoruz@lemm.ee 42 points 5 days ago

Was genuinely thinking of walking in front of Trump’s military parade.

[–] NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone 78 points 6 days ago (1 children)

US currently working on ways to top it.

[–] BmeBenji@lemm.ee 23 points 6 days ago (4 children)

That’s exactly what I was thinking. I feel like we’re months away at most

[–] BarneyPiccolo@lemmings.world 10 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Timing will be important. They'll want the big violence to break out next summer, so he can declare Martial Law, and suspend the 2026 Midterm election.

America has never missed an election, even during the Civil War. Suspending an election is a big, bright red, flashing line. They do that, and it's on for real.

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[–] taladar@sh.itjust.works 106 points 6 days ago (2 children)

"Never forget" is great and all but from a German perspective it seems to not be enough. It is much more important to make sure the same or very similar things do not happen again, not by China and not by any other nation. Otherwise you end up like we did here in Germany where decades of "never forget" lead to very similar sentiments being expressed by a new major party but since things are slightly different (e.g. the "never forget" was always phrased to be about Jews, this is more about foreigners in general) people seem to allow themselves to ignore them.

[–] wewbull@feddit.uk 80 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

"Never again":

  • ❌ "We must never do what we did to the Jews in WW2 again".
  • ✅ "We can never allow what we did to the Jews in WW2 to happen again to anyone".
[–] Wanderer@lemm.ee 25 points 6 days ago (4 children)

Germans should be critical of Israel then.

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[–] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 14 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Tankies talking about Tiananmen Square without whataboutism:

Challenge Level = IMPOSSIBLE

[–] unphazed@lemmy.world 33 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Meanwhile Oklahoma telling kids the 2020 election was rigged under state law.

[–] Gorilladrums@lemmy.world 16 points 6 days ago (17 children)

Tankies and whataboutism, name a more iconic duo (pro tip: you can't)

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[–] timewarp@lemmy.world 41 points 6 days ago (7 children)

Never forget says country engaged in rewriting its own history.

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[–] Jhex@lemmy.world 12 points 5 days ago

Maybe I'll take Taiwan's word on this one...

Whatever the US says, you just know it's posturing hypocritical bullshit

[–] iMastari@lemmy.world 8 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Everyone should read this

https://archive.ph/2020.07.12-074312/https://imgur.com/a/AIIbbPs

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[–] Deflated0ne@lemmy.world 10 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Love the propaganda around this. Its very dramatic and all. But here in the west its held up as some big thing. The rest of the video never gets played.

[–] lud@lemm.ee 9 points 5 days ago (16 children)

You should(n't) see the gruesome pictures. China is likely very happy that the tank man picture became famous when there were LOADS of other horrible images .

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[–] untakenusername@sh.itjust.works 9 points 5 days ago

downvotes are from tankies

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