this post was submitted on 14 Aug 2025
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Privacy

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It feel like we’re losing to Google, day by day. They aren’t killing AOSP directly, but they are making it useless step by step.

Now it’s Google Play Services, Play Integrity checks, installation source checks… more and more apps just refuse to run without GMS. Banking apps? Most of them don’t work. And it’s only getting worse. I run vanilla AOSP on my main profile, no Play Services. I keep GMS only in my work profile for the apps that absolutely need it. But now even some regular apps that don't need any play services won’t work on my main profile anymore. They simply block your from running , like le chat.

Maps is google's most important app there is no way to run without play services. Sure we can use webview or gmaps wv, but they don't provide turn-by-turn directions. Earlier maps used to work without play services, but two years ago, an update stopped it from working. Now that old version is out of date and no longer works.

Google is slowly making GMS very important to run. The problem with GMS is they require to run as system app and has to have all the permissions by default.

Hope EU puts pressure to make google allow apps to run independently without GMS or atleast install them as user apps(like graphene os sandboxed play services).

If we keep going on like this, AOSP can only run fdroid apps in the future.

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[–] the_abecedarian@piefed.social 70 points 2 weeks ago (25 children)

Linux phone operating systems aren't ready for daily use yet, but they are being actively developed. https://linmob.net/

[–] pineapple@lemmy.ml 20 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I can’t wait for when they are ready!

[–] pharceface@retrolemmy.com 15 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

It'll be awhile. They've been in a development state since the launch of the original pinephone in 2020. And even the pinephone is going to be unavailable in two years as pine64 is ceasing sales on it. Not trying to crap on devs. I bought two pinephones (Braveheart & Mobian bundle). Tested multiple distros and excitedly followed their progress for years. I never had a reliable working phone in that four year span. IMO SailfishOS and Post Market OS are the two most usable mobile distros. SailfishOS now requires an ongoing subscription to use which I don't like.

https://liliputing.com/pinephone-pro-linux-smartphone-has-been-discontinued-but-the-original-pinephone-is-still-available/

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[–] jim3692@discuss.online 56 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

Hope EU puts pressure to make google allow apps to run independently without GMS or atleast install them as user apps(like graphene os sandboxed play services).

I doubt they will put any pressure. EU decided to rely on GMS for their upcoming Digital ID app. While they claim they want to switch to open source alternatives of big tech services, they designed their app so that it forces EU citizens to either comply with Google's ToS, or Apple's.

Related discussion: https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/av-doc-technical-specification/issues/18

[–] kalistia@sh.itjust.works 21 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Furthermore, they do not seem particularly open to criticism on this subject...

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[–] cute_noker 8 points 2 weeks ago

Damn we are stupid in the EU!

What do we want: digital sovereignty

When do we want it: ehrm.. Well.. We have some things in pipeline and it is really hard...

They know that NSA is directly spying on us and they don't care

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[–] als@lemmy.blahaj.zone 46 points 2 weeks ago (14 children)

I highly reccomend comaps which has turn-by-turn directions and doesn't require Google services.

[–] Jumuta@sh.itjust.works 8 points 2 weeks ago

transit routing still doesn't work iirc, though gtfs stuff is in development

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[–] sunzu2@thebrainbin.org 38 points 2 weeks ago

We are in war with big tech, why would anyone think they would just let us win without a fight.

[–] zod000@lemmy.dbzer0.com 32 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

It is only slightly on topic, but I'd like to give a hateful shout out to Ticketmaster/Live Nation's new "mobile only" ticketed events that require you to have an iPhone or fully Google blessed Android phone. They do not allow you to use a QR code or printed ticket anymore, only their app with a constantly changing bare code or Google wallet (unsure of the IOS experience).

I am going to a concert this weekend and I either have to dig up some old phone that can work with this app or sell my tickets.

[–] far_university1990@reddthat.com 26 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (3 children)

Someone recently crack their shit code. Can use offline app after extract secret once. Will link once find.

Edit: https://conduition.io/coding/ticketmaster/ app (javascript) https://github.com/conduition/ticketgimp

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[–] ScoffingLizard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

I stopped going. Fuck it. Not giving in to their bullshit.

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[–] DynamicBits@lemmy.zip 7 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Just go to the box office when you get there and present an ID that matches the name the tickets were purchased under. Depending on the venue, they will either print your ticket or text you a link that opens a page in your browser that can be scanned.

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[–] Narauko@lemmy.world 28 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

Yeah, this is a problem. I attempted to switch to GrapheneOS just a month ago and had to roll back to stock Android. One of my banking apps worked, but 3 others didn't. My 2FA app didn't work. I stopped receiving important texts as they were previously RCS and that refused to validate no matter what I did.

Google has made it extremely hard to degoogle.

[–] Dreaming_Novaling@lemmy.zip 17 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

One of my banking apps worked, but 3 others didn't.

Same issue, I just did web browser instead

My 2FA app didn't work.

I suggest just exporting and using a different 2FA app, especially an open source one like Aegis

I stopped receiving important texts as they were previously RCS and that refused to validate no matter what

RCS on GrapheneOS is very finicky and requires using AppOps to enable READ_DEVICE_IDENTIFIERS, and you have to let carrier services and google messages have more permissions to work. You also might have to deregister your previous phone to use the number (i.e. my old iPhone still had my number in the settings, had to remove it). There's a very long GrapheneOS thread about it, but the link should be the solution.

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[–] dropped_packet@lemmy.zip 15 points 2 weeks ago (7 children)

Why not just access your financial institutions in a web browser?

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[–] EnsignWashout@startrek.website 10 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Google has made it extremely hard to degoogle.

Just remember that there are no nice reasons why they are working this hard to keep your phone captive.

We can argue about how bad it will get, but there's only worse things coming from this effort.

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[–] vas@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

With respect to 2FA, if you want to be more ready for any future next time, you could migrate to an open-source TOTP app. E.g. andOTP. I use this one, it's fine. The underlying standards don't change in decades, so you can choose any compatible client and be without trouble for years and years. And it may be good to do in any case, googlified phone or not. Good apps also tend to provide password-protected backups.

I have no knowledge about RCS though, never used it so can't tell. Otherwise GrapheneOS user for ~2 years, before that LineageOS, before that CopperheadOS for another few years.

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[–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 25 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (3 children)

Of the largest android sellers, only samsung requires gplay. Xiaomi, vivo, oppo, realme, honor, are all chinese companies that require non-bundled google play for their domestic (and maybe other countries?) releases. Google can't alienate these sellers, and if they did, all of these companies would create their own AOSP fork (or just switch to HarmonyOS)

I recently bought a xiaomi android tablet that doesn't have google play services luckily.

[–] sunzu2@thebrainbin.org 9 points 2 weeks ago

If the goal is too swap one parasite for another, this is a valid strategy BUT

Custom ROM is the only proper solution, ideally GrapheneOS, if you actually care about security and privacy.

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[–] monovergent@lemmy.ml 24 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

EU won't be too friendly either given the nature of their recent identification app. You should still write to your legislators, but they're a mostly tech-illiterate bunch, so expect it to be a low ROI activity.

Really do consider donating to projects like GrapheneOS. The GrapheneOS team are a very passionate and clever group, and I'd like to think that they can at least give us something to work with, even if Google completely cuts the cord. Hopefully they can also secure an additional revenue stream once they release their own phone.

If it really does all fall through and there's no deGoogled way to run Android apps, I'll keep a separate phone, preferably with a removable battery, with regular Android just to host the proprietary apps. Treat it as a work phone, i.e. power off when not needed, don't connect to my main home network, don't do anything that doesn't need to be done on it. Proprietary apps only make up a small fraction of my mobile workflow, so everything else stays on another phone that respects my privacy.

[–] sunzu2@thebrainbin.org 10 points 2 weeks ago

they're a mostly tech-illiterate bunch

Y'all keep saying this.... These people are not stupid, they are corrupt. Start calling spade a spade. You are giving them something to hide behind jfc.

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[–] Shamot@jlai.lu 22 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

For banking, I use the website instead of the application. I have very few non-open-source applications left on my phone.

[–] rivvvver@lemmy.dbzer0.com 21 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

if u rely on GMS so much, have u tried replacing it with microG?

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[–] shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip 16 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Run as many open source apps as you can is about the best option. Also, OSMAND does provide turn-by-turn directions.

What it does not do well is street addresses, so at times you may find that you have to use the GPS coordinates of the place you are going to in order to get directions.

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[–] Schlemmy@lemmy.ml 14 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

Maps?

Use OsmAnd and MagicEarth? I've been using it for years now. Works fine.

[–] Luffy879@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)
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[–] idriss@lemmy.ml 12 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

What will it take to make a phone that comes with GrapheneOS directly? I have access to some good connections in China, what phone spec could we prototype to have a phone coming with GrapheneOS? I am ready to throw my savings at starting this business. Or should I reach out to GrapheneOS people directly? (Lineage works also)

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 15 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

GrapheneOs is currently discussing some stuff with OEMs but more help wouldn't hurt I bet.

[–] idriss@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

As per my 30min research, GrapheneOS depends heavily on pixel internals, but I will highjack one of the mastodon posts maybe somebody will spoonfeed me the definitive answer.

I live in a very low cost area, hopefully I will manage to get a nameless phone to run GrapheneOS or LineageOS at low cost, forward most of the income to the open source projects.

It might be too naive but I am giving it a shot.

[–] that_leaflet@lemmy.world 12 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

GrapheneOS is talking to OEMs to create a phone. Up to this point, they’ve only supported Pixels because they’ve had the best security. But with Android 16, Google stopped sharing important files that make it more difficult to continue supporting Pixels. Hence the desire to create their own device.

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[–] LiamTheBox@lemmy.ml 12 points 2 weeks ago (7 children)

Real question is

Why can't a rooted android fake play services?

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[–] sudoku@programming.dev 9 points 2 weeks ago (20 children)

There are a million maps apps, even google itself has two (Waze). Banking is easily accessible thru a web browser. Also, rooting your phone gives you ability to fake a lot of the requirements to make stubborn apps run.

[–] Timely_Jellyfish_2077@programming.dev 16 points 2 weeks ago (9 children)

I am sorry I tried many many maps apps, but none come close enough to replace google maps completely. No reviews, photos, live traffic, raw data etc. Google maps is truly miles ahead of the alternatives, especially in India.

[–] Rolive@discuss.tchncs.de 13 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Idk about India but here in the Netherlands almost all google reviews are fake. They're not a good indicator of quality.

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[–] ViatorOmnium@piefed.social 14 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

Banking is easily accessible thru a web browser

Until your bank 2nd factor requires google play services and all the banks in your country have the same requirement.

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[–] ExcessShiv@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

rooting your phone gives you ability to fake a lot of the requirements to make stubborn apps run.

Rooting also completely breaks the ability to run some apps with no recourse for spoofing the fact that it's a rooted device.

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[–] Tenderizer78@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 weeks ago

Linux phones won't go anywhere, so you should probably donate to GrapheneOS and hope they have enough in the bank to fork android by the time it's completely discontinued.

[–] DieserTypMatthias@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 weeks ago

Maybe postmarketOS?

[–] vas@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (10 children)

I'm not sure what the point of the post is? Is it to share frustration? Searching for a solution? Sorry, I may be not good at inferring this, but I don't get it.

IF you are in solution-finding mode, then there are a few things that you can do.

  1. You can use those banks that work without google. I've found 2 in the Netherlands, for example. One of them stopped working a while ago, I've wrote about that to their support and had to discontinue, withdrawing all my funds using a Dutch procedure for full withdrawal from a bank. After half a year or so I've noticed they've fixed it and work without google again. I've returned as well (it's convenient for me to have 2 banks). I'm sure as hell banks watch for their usage statistics and wouldn't like seeing people leave their bank if it can be fixed with a simple reversal of whatever the dev team did lately.
  2. You could try Linux phones such as PinePhone to see which use cases can it already cover. 30%? 70%? 90%? You'll know what to even wait for in the Linux landscape to be able to switch. You'll get a bit of power or mental control if you acquire this knowledge.
  3. Funnily, you can expect some good news coming from all those fights between US and China, because that makes a LOT of devices ship without google services. And some people in your county (I assume it's not China, otherwise you wouldn't have these problems) may have phones bought there, so you won't be alone when pushing for such changes.
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