THE POLICE PROBLEM
The police problem is that police are policed by the police. Cops are accountable only to other cops, which is no accountability at all.
99.9999% of police brutality, corruption, and misconduct is never investigated, never punished, never makes the news, so it's not on this page.
When cops are caught breaking the law, they're investigated by other cops. Details are kept quiet, the officers' names are withheld from public knowledge, and what info is eventually released is only what police choose to release — often nothing at all.
When police are fired — which is all too rare — they leave with 'law enforcement experience' and can easily find work in another police department nearby. It's called "Wandering Cops."
When police testify under oath, they lie so frequently that cops themselves have a joking term for it: "testilying." Yet it's almost unheard of for police to be punished or prosecuted for perjury.
Cops can and do get away with lawlessness, because cops protect other cops. If they don't, they aren't cops for long.
The legal doctrine of "qualified immunity" renders police officers invulnerable to lawsuits for almost anything they do. In practice, getting past 'qualified immunity' is so unlikely, it makes headlines when it happens.
All this is a path to a police state.
In a free society, police must always be under serious and skeptical public oversight, with non-cops and non-cronies in charge, issuing genuine punishment when warranted.
Police who break the law must be prosecuted like anyone else, promptly fired if guilty, and barred from ever working in law-enforcement again.
That's the solution.
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Our definition of ‘cops’ is broad, and includes prison guards, probation officers, shitty DAs and judges, etc — anyone who has the authority to fuck over people’s lives, with minimal or no oversight.
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RULES
① Real-life decorum is expected. Please don't say things only a child or a jackass would say in person.
② If you're here to support the police, you're trolling. Please exercise your right to remain silent.
③ Saying ~~cops~~ ANYONE should be killed lowers the IQ in any conversation. They're about killing people; we're not.
④ Please don't dox or post calls for harassment, vigilantism, tar & feather attacks, etc.
Please also abide by the instance rules.
It you've been banned but don't know why, check the moderator's log. If you feel you didn't deserve it, hey, I'm new at this and maybe you're right. Send a cordial PM, for a second chance.
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ALLIES
• r/ACAB
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INFO
• A demonstrator's guide to understanding riot munitions
• Cops aren't supposed to be smart
• Killings by law enforcement in Canada
• Killings by law enforcement in the United Kingdom
• Killings by law enforcement in the United States
• Know your rights: Filming the police
• Three words. 70 cases. The tragic history of 'I can’t breathe' (as of 2020)
• Police aren't primarily about helping you or solving crimes.
• Police lie under oath, a lot
• Police spin: An object lesson in Copspeak
• Police unions and arbitrators keep abusive cops on the street
• Shielded from Justice: Police Brutality and Accountability in the United States
• When the police knock on your door
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ORGANIZATIONS
• NAACP
• National Police Accountability Project
• Vera: Ending Mass Incarceration
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Dear Americans,
You're well within your right to shoot ICE agents on sight.
Do you not understand what the 2nd Amendment is for and are utterly ignorant to concepts such as "self defense"?
I don't see any well-regulated militias around here...
Yea. That's kinda the entire problem that I'm attempting to highlight. See my other comment where I literally quote the amendment word for word
In the current climate, do you really think a judge will support your assertions of self defence?
If you shoot an ICE officer, I very much doubt you'd ever see a court room.
We're a little past hoping judges do the right thing.
Only if you want to spend the rest of your life dead or in prison.
It’s a lovely thought, but ICE has the entire weight of the government behind them.
I was under the impression that US rules about trespassing left the owner with a lot of rights, even to use weapons to protect their property. Doesn't this apply when ICE raids homes without warnings or warrants?
Americans love to preach about their rules. Especially about how uniquely exceptional the rules are. Turns out it's all bullshit. They're just another tinpot dictatorship ruling over a barbaric shithole.
Apparently not, either die trying or live in servitude as all hopes of resistance gets further stripped away. A lot of people in here seem to choose the latter, it's how the bad guys win every time.
Yes but no, you have the right to defend your home but not against an officer of the law carrying out a warrant. So if a plain clothes officer, with a drawn fire arm, carrys out a no knock warrent, and the homeowner tries to shoot them. That's attempting to kill an officer of the law. It doesn't matter if the appearance of a plain clothes no knock warrent is identical to a home invasion, and the homeowner defends themselves, the ICE agents are just going to kill the homeowner and the ICE agents will have protection of the law.
Honest question: what warrant are they operating under? These guys won't even produce ID when asked so I doubt they've got paperwork
If you're asking about ICE officers, they've been given the authority to sign their own warrants.
This isn't really true. People have gotten off on shooting at officers because they didn't know they were officers. It's a huge risk, because they'll also likely just shoot you, but the law doesn't actually require people to have telepathic knowledge of the association of a presumed home invader.
It's still very much a matter of privilege to afford a good enough attorney to get you off. Black people tend to get shot while sleeping and convicted postmortem.
You are forgetting they are not using warrants. A court would find you not guilty if they have no warrant and you defend yourself according to your laws.
I certainly wouldn't find anybody shooting an ICE "agent" as guilty if I was on the Jury, regardless of what a judge might say. Jury Nullification is an important right that every U.S. Citizen should know about, but never talk about inside a court house.
I refuse to put away people defending their community from a gestapo like force, regardless of the events surrounding said gestapo's death.
If ICE comes for you, there's an over 50% chance that's gonna happen either way. May as well even the field a bit.
Also wondering what happens if there next goon squad is all ventilated.
"Oh yeah, I saw an attempted kidnapping and then somebody shot the kidnappers. Victim and the shooter ran away. Guy was wearing a hoodie. No idea who they were"
Same rules as when you see a young mom/dad steal diapers and baby food.
No, you didn't.
I guess ICE wins then. Yayyyyy.