Ask Lemmy
A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions
Rules: (interactive)
1) Be nice and; have fun
Doxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them
2) All posts must end with a '?'
This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?
3) No spam
Please do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.
4) NSFW is okay, within reason
Just remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either !asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world or !asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com.
NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].
5) This is not a support community.
It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions.
If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.
6) No US Politics.
Please don't post about current US Politics. If you need to do this, try !politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world or !askusa@discuss.online
Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.
Partnered Communities:
Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu
view the rest of the comments
That is an insanely dumb way to look at what environment is as far as darwinism is concerned. It's like pretending being on a ship in the middle of the ocean is the same as swimming out there.
Only one of these conditions is meant to apply to the process of evolution and darwinism.
"meant" what do you mean by "meant"? who meant? why did they mean for that? You're not making sense, you're ascribing special properties to manmade enviorns and acting like they're polluted, bad, or different in some essential way. That manmade enviorns are polluted, harmful, or otherwise damaging is just incidental, they don't HAVE to be that way, you cannot just assume that they're innately worse than "natural" enviornments, they're just different. I just want to understand how you think "manmade" is any different from the effort ALL fauna and flora makes to change their enviornment to suit their needs. Is it "natural" the bees build hives? Is it "natural" for beavers to damn creeks? Were trees "meant" to alter the soil chemistry around them to fight off competitors? Did bryophytes defy nature's will by evolving a waxy cuticle to survive in locations untouched by plants before they evolved? Humans, nor any other animal whatsoever was "intended" to live somewhere or some way. This a fundamental error so many people make when talking about the ecology of our planet, there is psuedo-religious way of looking at things and ascribing of anthropocentric values. None of this has a purpose, none of it has a goal, none of it has an intent, or a desire, or any sort of human-like trait.
No, not toxic traits. Literal, absolute, augmentations to survivability.
I agree that THE WORD "environment" applies to them.
You need to understand that they ARE NOT "the environment" as applied to darwinism/survival of the fittest. They are augmented and artificial, and that removes humans from natural evolution, which is the entire point being made. Humans changing their environment so much as to have wholly separate spaces with wholly separate conditions than nature removes humans from the natural order of events of the planet's biome. Yes species still change under artificial conditions. The point is humans are more subject to artificial conditions than natural. At least until natural conditions get bad enough.
I just have to disagree that there IS a dichtomy between what could be defined as natural and unnatural in this case. I just cannot see that it is a particularly meaningful difference between what is being categorized as "natural" and "unnatural". I fundamentally believe it to be something that's more emotionally relevant to people than meaningful in a material sense. Also, I particularly loathe when people use emotionally charged language to describe natural processes, nature really does not give a single shit about morality or ethics or the things we value, it's not a "good" or a "bad" thing outside of the human lens, everything happens for material reasons and nothing more. Quick post-script, if you're the one downvoting my posts that's kinda disrespectful, I thought it was an interesting conversation I wasn't telling you to "shut up and agree with me" or anything. If that wasn't you then I apologize for suspecting you.
There is a dichotomy in how humans survive vs how a wild animal survives. That's the entire point. Humans are subject more to our own BS than natures' BS (for now). That's the entire point. Humans haven't evolved to survive Earth better for millenia, but to survive each other better. The game has shifted, and that's the entire point.