this post was submitted on 11 Apr 2025
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I did not realize this was a thing until I just switched to AZERTY which... despite being marketed as being "similar" to QWERTY, is still tripping me up

Edit: since this came up twice: I'm switching since I'm relocating to the French-speaking part of the world & I just happened to want to learn the language/culture, so yeah

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i've used dvorak but I plan to switch to a charachorder

[–] Kalcifer@sh.itjust.works 6 points 4 days ago (1 children)
[–] technomad@slrpnk.net 4 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I retrained myself in Dvorak many years back, and really enjoyed using it much better than QWERTY. I had to revert back to qwerty because of commercial standardizations/limitations at different workplaces, unfortunately.

All that to say that workman layout seems even better after reading that article. I don't really see myself making the effort to switch again, but I enjoyed reading about it. Thanks for sharing.

[–] mholiv@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Small warning about workman. It has issues with lateral movements and single finger n-grams. “ly” and “ct” being notable examples.

A piece of advice I heard that served me well was to look mostly at post covid designs. A lot of work was done on layout optimization around that time and the results show.

My recommendations in no particular order are:

Colemak-DH if you want to focus on a well supported layout.

Graphite or Engram or one of the hands down layouts are modern well optimized layouts I would consider if I was to learn something today.

Some people like MTGAP but in my book it was designed with too much of an emphasis on minimizing key spacing without a strong enough emphasis on how human hands work.

I personally use engram but it only works for me because I have strong pinkies. If you don’t it’s probably a bad choice.

[–] Walk_blesseD@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 4 days ago (4 children)
[–] Blaze@sopuli.xyz 4 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Thought I was. Must've been a couple of duplicate comms on other instances.

[–] RichieRich@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

😱 How can someone use this?

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[–] ninjaturtle@lemmy.today 4 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Colemak. Fingers move around less than QWERTY.

[–] lambdabeta@lemmy.ca 4 points 4 days ago

Dvorak with caps lock as a dead key here. No programmer's Dvorak despite being a programmer... Never quite made the leap

[–] Schlemmy@lemmy.ml 4 points 4 days ago

AZERTY Belgian, Flemish style

[–] xia@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 4 days ago

Ortholinear Dvorak.

[–] Axiochus@lemmy.world 3 points 4 days ago (2 children)

I use EurKey, it's neat when you occasionally need special umlauts. https://eurkey.steffen.bruentjen.eu/

[–] kugel7c@feddit.org 1 points 3 days ago

Yep I switched from quertz to this because the symbols used in coding are Ansi QWERTY derived. Can still write German and get brackets on layer 0 best of both worlds.

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[–] Treczoks@lemmy.world 3 points 4 days ago

QWERTZ. Like QWERTY, but Y and Z exchanged, and some extra letters. Biggest difference to an English keyboard are the non alphabethical, non numerical characters. In comparison, they are all in different places.

[–] user224@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I don't use it, but Slovak QWERTZ is the standard in my country. But using it feels like a pain in the ass (for me). Some characters need ctrl+alt rather than just shift, others may only be written with alt codes, at least on Windows...

Part of my graduation exam was literally to just type \ % @ & on a computer. Thankfully for me, settings wasn't blocked, so I just added US layout.

If I need some slovak characters I do either one of the following:

  1. Say "fuck it" and write it without diacritics ("like SMS")
  2. If needed in forms, use KCharSelect
  3. Smartphone virtual keyboard
  4. Like 1 but printed on paper with diacritics added using a pen
  5. Write it in English even if I am not supposed to and wait for the outcome
  6. Write it in English, pipe it to Google Translate (I find writing in English mostly easier anyway - doesn't mean I am good at it)
  7. Write it in English, (attempt to) translate it myself
  8. Good ol' pen 'n paper all the way (I mean, I've got a fountain pen too)
[–] hinterlufer@lemmy.world 3 points 4 days ago

have you tried the eurokey layout? At least for German it has all the relevant characters easily reachable.

[–] ocean@lemmy.selfhostcat.com 3 points 4 days ago

For Chinese (10 key) and Japanese (kana)I use a 3x3 on my phone. Very common for Japanese but difficult to learn, maybe less common in Chinese over standard qwerty.

[–] fubo@lemmy.world 3 points 4 days ago

Split Colemak on an Iris keyboard.

[–] 0x01@lemmy.ml 3 points 4 days ago

I have a fully custom keyboard layout on my split ergo keyboard, makes it really hard to work on somebody else's machine!

[–] lemonuri@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Qwertz.

I teu tried neo couple of years ago but did not use it long enough to get proficient.

[–] Agosagror@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 4 days ago

I've been slowly, and I mean slowly, trying to pick up steno. I get the occasional moment where I go super quick, but mostly it's just 1-10wpm at the moment. When I actually want to get stuff done I switch to QWERTY

[–] iii@mander.xyz 3 points 4 days ago

Moved from AZERTY to QWERTY last year

[–] BagOfHeavyStones@lemm.ee 2 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Now I'm wondering if other typing layouts are better or worse for people who use swype, swiftkey etc. Maybe those need character separation to function best?

[–] 404@lemmy.zip 1 points 4 days ago
[–] mat@jlai.lu 2 points 4 days ago

I am moving from AZERTY to bépo with futo keyboard but i want to try ergo-l

[–] TabbsTheBat@pawb.social 2 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Non-qwerty trips me up too x3.. I considered using ąžerty before cause certain symbols can be annoying with qwerty in my language, since you need to hit 3 buttons

[–] Nemo@slrpnk.net 2 points 4 days ago

Dvorak. My fourth year of college I found myself with some time and decided to finally learn to touch-type. No regrets, I love it.

[–] Beryl@jlai.lu 1 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

There's a variant of AZERTY devised by the AFNOR ( french standardisation agency) that improves on a lot of ways on the legacy AZERTY, by grouping accents, parentheses, quote marks, etc. and making keys combinations a lot less common. It would be quite easier to learn than standard AZERTY, and it's quite easy to learn for regular AZERTY users too. Unfortunately, it's almost impossible to find a keyboard or even keycaps with the corresponding markings. Drivers are available by following the link if you want to try it for yourself.

It looks like this :

1000020522

As for myself, I touch type in French on a QWERTY keyboard with an AZERTY letters layout, because even legacy AZERTY keycaps are not that common, and neither are ISO enthusiast segment keyboards.

[–] heavydust@sh.itjust.works 2 points 4 days ago (1 children)

LDLC (online shop) has those new keyboards, but I don't know if its worth it since the problem with all the standard layouts are the location of the letters in the first place.

[–] Beryl@jlai.lu 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

They used to but it's not for sale anymore. It was a really cheap membrane keyboard anyway, so not something I would want to use. I'm actually fine with the location of the letters, it's the illogical distribution of parentheses, slashes, quotation marks, square brackets etc. that I find irritating in AZERTY. I wouldn't want to relearn it from scratch, I just wish I could get my hands on some quality new AZERTY keycaps.

[–] zxqwas@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Some cursed variant of dvorak with both common programming symbols and the local extra letters on accessible keys.

I switched because I got tired of the {}[] being on alt+gr combinations on the Nordic qwerty

[–] nichtburningturtle@feddit.org 1 points 4 days ago

Since I'm German I used to exclusively use qwertz, but now I use both qwertz and qwerty with qwerty being my main when docked.

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