this post was submitted on 16 Apr 2025
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Science Memes

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[–] Reddfugee42@lemmy.world 52 points 3 days ago (4 children)

This is (fortunately) why there's a maximum size on insects. The environment is less oxygen rich today than in the eras of giant insects in the past. They reach a size where oxygen can't penetrate deeply enough onto their bodies.

[–] excral@feddit.org 16 points 3 days ago (1 children)

It's all based on a very fundamental mathematical law: if you increase the size of something, the volume increases with the third power while the surface area increases with the second power. An insect twice as large would be 8x as heavy and need 8x as much oxygen but 4x as much surface area.

That's also the reason why insects are as strong as they are. The strength of a muscle scales primarily with the cross section area of it, which again scales with the second power. So if you'd increase the weight of an ant by a factor 10,000,000 (e.g. 5mg to 50kg), the expected strength would increase by 10,000,000^(2/3) ≈ 46,400. If it could lift 10x it's weight at the original size, it could now only lift about 4.6% of it's weight

[–] Sauerkraut@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Reminds me of how the damage to roads scales with the weight of the vehicle to the 4th power, so someone driving a 6000lb pickup does 16x more damage to roads than a 3000lb sedan

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[–] Anomalocaris@lemm.ee 13 points 3 days ago (8 children)

maybe once I have money for hobbies, but I really want to make oxygen rich terrariums, and selectively breed tarantulas to see if I can make them larger.

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[–] Gladaed@feddit.org 5 points 3 days ago (2 children)

On lungless insects. If they develop to be larger they will get lungs!

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[–] NoOutlinesBand@lemmy.world 14 points 3 days ago

"I've been trying to quit smoking. I want to take better care of my spiracles"

[–] tiredofsametab@fedia.io 64 points 4 days ago (9 children)

And, for the most part, humans' lungs don't have bees!

I somehow forgot about bees not having lungs. I knew some other small things didn't.

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[–] Atomic@sh.itjust.works 37 points 4 days ago (3 children)

Insects don't have lungs. It also means their potential size is directly limited by the oxygen content in the air.

Which is why we don't see cat sized insects roaming around.

[–] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 15 points 3 days ago (5 children)

Which is why you don't see cat sized insects roaming around, I live next to a tarantula trail and some of them fuckers get BIG.

[–] Atomic@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 days ago

Arachnids are not insects though.

[–] Anomalocaris@lemm.ee 8 points 3 days ago

tarantulas do indeed have lungs though

[–] samus12345@lemm.ee 11 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

Spiders aren't insects. Though like them, they don't have lungs! Not ones like ours, anyway.

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[–] Wilco@lemm.ee 11 points 3 days ago

Wait until this person hears about fish.

[–] BigDanishGuy@sh.itjust.works 9 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Like most others I have not read the article. But someone please answer me this:

If the bees fell asleep, then why didn't the fire kill them? I can accept that insects don't have lungs, I mean some people are doing well without hearts... but am I supposed to accept that bees are also immune to fire damage?

[–] Abird1620@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Put simply smoke doesn't have to be hot. Smoke is just unburnt fuel caused by a process called offgassing (solid turning to a gas).

An example of cooled down smoke is a fire that starts in a well sealed room. It burns through as much fuel as possible, and while the solids are hot they turn into gas, however, due to a lack of oxygen, you don't necessarily see combustion. So then the fire snuffs itself out and what you are left with is a cooling smoke.

So let's say that the fire is on an upper floor. Heat goes up, cold goes down. So as smoke travels through a building it cools, and may eventually sink towards the ground or a lower level (this can be especially possible in a building as large as a cathedral) smoke sinks and interacts with bees at a "manageable temperature".

Tldr: smoke isn't always hot. The bees are happy.

[–] Plaidboy@sh.itjust.works 9 points 3 days ago

The bees were on a different lower down roof from the main roof (which is the one that burned). The article notes that bee wax melts at 70C and they didn't see any of that under the hives, so they know temperatures stayed below that. So the bees were likely only exposed to some smoke and maybe some slightly elevated temperatures.

[–] Gullible@sh.itjust.works 75 points 4 days ago (12 children)

So if I understand you correctly, if I remove my lungs, I’m a bee? My aunt had lung cancer, so they’ll probably kill me, anyway. I’ll report back on the results.

[–] tahoe@lemmy.world 81 points 4 days ago (10 children)

No because you’re likely too big (no offense) :(

I think insects have little holes all over their bodies, in which air gets inside by itself through some physics shenanigans. It doesn’t need to be actively sucked in like with lungs, it just happens because they’re so small.

This method doesn’t scale up though since if you’re bigger, you need more air, and having little holes all over your body won’t cut it. Thats when you know you need lungs, and that’s why you don’t see insects the size of a dog these days (thankfully).

There used to be times in the Earth’s history (Carboniferous) where the air’s composition was different though, and since it had more oxygen in it, insects could grow a lot larger.

[–] Metz@lemmy.world 53 points 4 days ago (4 children)

Fun fact: Cutaneous respiration (aka "Skin breathing") is something we humans do too. But it accounts only for 1% to 2% of our oxygen input.

However, the cornea of ​​our eyes doesn't have its own blood vessels to supply it. Therefore, it relies on direct gas exchange with the environment—in other words, skin respiration.

Our eyes breath like bees.

[–] dave@feddit.uk 28 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Is that why bees can't wear contact lenses?

[–] Remember_the_tooth@lemmy.world 42 points 4 days ago (7 children)

No, it's because they have compound eyes. Even if they could afford all the different lenses they need, they'd never have enough time to put them in and take them out, while still working a full day.

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[–] Remember_the_tooth@lemmy.world 26 points 4 days ago (8 children)

Yeah, and if you pluck a chicken, it will be a human, because it's featherless and stands on two legs.

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[–] count_dongulus@lemmy.world 57 points 4 days ago (4 children)

Beekeepers intentionally use smoke to make bees docile during collection time, transfers, etc

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[–] MyNameIsIgglePiggle@sh.itjust.works 17 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Well that's a Christmas spiracle

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[–] LordOfLocksley@lemmy.world 33 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Huh, the Greek hero Spiracles saved the bees

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[–] hperrin@lemmy.world 28 points 4 days ago (4 children)

Hold on, wait a minute, pause. There are people who think that bugs have lungs?

[–] Remember_the_tooth@lemmy.world 34 points 4 days ago (3 children)

To be fair, while bugs and other insects don't have lungs, some arthropods do. The differences among arthropods, insects and bugs aren't exactly common knowledge.

[–] TomasEkeli@programming.dev 26 points 4 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (22 children)

some have book-lungs not true lungs. Only us fish have "true" lungs

edit: this thread turned into nerd-heaven. i love it!

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[–] Maalus@lemmy.world 15 points 4 days ago

It's funny that this is biology in 4th grade and half the people here are shocked

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[–] Alpha71@lemmy.world 27 points 4 days ago (1 children)
[–] AppleTea@lemmy.zip 70 points 4 days ago (3 children)

Not just bees, it's true of all insects.

Consequently, the amount of oxygen in the air determines how big bugs can grow. Get too big, and the oxygen can't diffuse into the body fast enough. This even shows up in the fossil records, with larger bugs being found alongside evidence of eras that had more oxygen in the atmosphere.

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[–] Jimmycrackcrack@lemmy.ml 8 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Why doesn't the damaging and hot particulate matter in smoke do any harm to or otherwise clog up their spiracles like it does to the inner lining of lungs? I gather lungs are wet and also very delicate, but if they're directly oxygenating their organs through these spiracles eventually it must get to somewhere wet and delicate for the smoke to get in and potentially harm.

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[–] pyre@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (6 children)

don't beekeepers use smoke or some such?

[–] Leeks@lemmy.world 32 points 3 days ago (10 children)

Yup. It simulates a forest fire and encourages them to gorge themselves on honey and leave the hive. They get less protective of the hive (because they think it is doomed) which makes it easier to work. They will check back in under an hour to see if the hive made it, and if so, will regurgitate the honey back and continue on with their day.

[–] WrenFeathers@lemmy.world 13 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Bees are so fricking cool.

[–] Leeks@lemmy.world 28 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Fun additional bee fact! Bee hives have personalities and each hive has a different one! Some hives are very easy going and have no problems being worked. Other hives don’t like to be touched and will get defensive quickly. When working hives, one of the things you look for is bees lining up on the edge of a frame staring you down. If you see that, hit them with some more smoke else you are about to be stung!

[–] WrenFeathers@lemmy.world 11 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)
[–] Leeks@lemmy.world 23 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Bees navigate using the sun. It doesn’t really seem that they make a map, but more seem to know where they are by the process of directions that got them there. When they return to the hive they just reverse the way they got there. If you stand in front of the entrance to a bee hive for a few minutes then turn around to face away from the hive, you will see a swarm of bees flying in a holding pattern waiting for you to move so they can return. Once you move the entrance to the hive gets really busy. They don’t seem to know to go around you, they just wait till the path is clear!

[–] WrenFeathers@lemmy.world 12 points 3 days ago (2 children)

You realize I would have you posting bee facts all day if I could, right?

[–] Leeks@lemmy.world 12 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Here’s another for the road: mites are a big problem for bees. They latch on to the bees and the bees don’t feel them. One way bee keepers can encourage bees to clean themselves and knock off the mites is by covering the bees in powdered sugar! This makes it look like there are a bunch of powder white bees flying around for a while.

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