this post was submitted on 16 Jun 2025

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191

Suspect Vance Boelter in Minnesota lawmakers shooting arrested by police: Sources - ABC News (abcnews.go.com)

submitted 2 weeks ago by slothrop@lemmy.ca to c/world@lemmy.world

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[+] ToadOfHypnosis@lemm.ee 77 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

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[–] jimjam5@lemmy.world 29 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Ya, we have the right of free speech, but hate-filled and verifiably false speech/statements should be punished or at least labeled with mandatory warnings that indicate them as such.

[–] FaceDeer@fedia.io 22 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

The problem with that kind of thing is always "who decides what's hate-filled and false?" If there was a Federal government mechanism for that in the United States it would now be in the hands of Trump and the Republicans.

[–] orclev@lemmy.world 19 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

You're both right which is the real conundrum. It's becoming increasingly obvious that conspiracy theories and propaganda in our hyperconnected social media fueled internet are incredibly dangerous and rot the foundations of democracy. Democracy can not survive if these kinds of things are left unchecked. By the same token however any mechanism that immediately springs to mind to combat them is ripe for abuse and easily subverted by fascists and totalitarians. I honestly don't know what the solution is, only that we desperately need one.

[–] wagesj45@fedia.io 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

America is a polarized country, and the two general world views would probably strongly disagree on what constitutes "hate speech". And you cannot just handwave the issue because there is no clear dominant group. Elections are won and lost on relatively razor thin margins, splitting political power between two very disparate groups. Unless you're willing to literally fight a war over it, you might find yourself on the wrong side of the definition and thus subject to state application of force.

[–] orclev@lemmy.world 12 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

TL;DR: of that whole thing boils down to "the problem is too hard to solve and all the solutions are worse than the problem so don't even try". I don't agree with the premise because if we accept it, then democracy is doomed.

We can not have a functioning society when we can't even get a majority of the citizens to agree on basic aspects of reality and half the people are convinced the other half are lizard people that are putting mind control drugs in the water supply. A functioning democracy requires an informed and educated populace, and unchecked propaganda, disinformation, and conspiracy theories lead to the opposite of that, particularly when you have a wealthy group that profits from spreading it.

[–] KoboldCoterie@pawb.social 6 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Technology advances quickly and lawmaking advances slowly. 50 years ago, this wouldn't have been nearly as much of a problem, because the flow of information would be a lot slower, and fewer people would be exposed to these things. Today, Trump posts something hate-filled on the internet and his followers everywhere in the country see it immediately. Same goes for any other person with social media influence. If Elon Musk posts something provably false, tens of millions of people consume it. A hundred people can post the proof that it's false within minutes, and a fraction of those people will see it and even fewer will care.

The problem isn't the speech, the problem is the platform they're given.

[–] orclev@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

The platform is a tool, and like most tools it can be used for both good and evil. I agree it's making the problem significantly worse, but hyper focusing on just the platforms while ignoring the people using them doesn't seem like the right approach either. I don't know how to preserve the positive aspects of platforms like Facebook, TikTok, and Youtube while also preventing them from being abused to spread hate and lies. I feel like there must be something that can be done to at least improve the situation a little. The various "community notes" features I don't think were a terrible first step, although they're also far from a solution. It's a complicated problem with a lot of potential pitfalls, but one I think is going to be critical to solve and soon because the problem isn't going away, as long as we have an internet it's here to stay.

[–] wagesj45@fedia.io 1 points 2 weeks ago

That's a fair conclusion to draw, but that very well might mean you have to physically fight for the outcome you want.

[–] torrentialgrain@lemm.ee 4 points 2 weeks ago

Yes, but would things have gotten this far with a more reasonable information policy? I’d argue Trump would not have gotten elected (again).

[–] r0ertel@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

As some of the other posters argued, this is a slippery slope to censorship by those in power, which does not allow for dissenting opinions to propogate.

Given that free speech doesn't mean that anybody needs to listen, I feel that the problem (and solution) lies in the conduit for the free speech. I don't understand the complexities of the laws but have wondered if adjusting the laws to hold entities accountable for their actions would have a positive effect. For example, an idiot shouting from the town square has a limited audience, but if a newspaper picks up the message and promotes it, aren't they partially responsible for that message?

It gets tricky with opinion pieces, but we already have an established mechansm with newspapers' opinion pages. One potential problem is that the current media companies enjoy no accountability, no content creation costs and profits from advertisers.

On that topic, I'd even go so far as to argue that advertisers share in the accountability of providing funds to organizations that support harmful messages.

There's a lot more to this but would be interesting to see a country who has done it and if it had a net positive effect.

[–] barneypiccolo@lemm.ee 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

We have truth-in-advertising laws. You can't make claims about a product that isn't true.

Politics is just a product, being sold by a candidate. If that candidate lies about the product they "represent," and the voters rely on those promised lies, the politician should be held responsible for that lie.

For instance, HitlerPig claimed for years that he had a first-rate health care plan that was two weeks away from release. Finally, during his debate with Harris, he admitted that all they had were "concepts" of a plan. Clearly, there was never a plan at all.

Politicians should be held accountable for their deliberate lies.

[–] Lasherz12@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

In practice I agree, but the crime of the left is being correct too early. I feel like that will play to our disadvantage when the media has cemented lies already that we'd be (I think) persecuted for correcting.

[–] Romkslrqusz@lemmy.zip 60 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Be interesting to see how this guy’s treatment compares to Luigi’s

[–] KoboldCoterie@pawb.social 31 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

4x the number of victims - he should require 4x the security, right? Bring in 4 precincts worth of police to escort him. Maybe they can requisition some of the tanks from the parade on Saturday. Just to be safe, you know?

[–] Brunbrun6766@lemmy.world 13 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I expect him to be flown in via TWO helicopters and those helicopter pilots and their wives to take part in the perp walk

[–] Lasherz12@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

Lol Walz doesn't seem like the perp walk type of governor, but it would be pretty badass given that he was on the hit list. Maybe that's my bias, but Adams looked like a doofus when he did it. Dunno who the mayors of the places are.

[–] pHr34kY@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago

Well, he assassinated an member of government. That's far worse than a private citizen.

[–] wanderwisley@lemm.ee 23 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

May the full strength of the law punish this pos.

[–] humble_boatsman@sh.itjust.works 28 points 2 weeks ago

I guarantee he is not charged with terrorism. And threatened in the news cycle or by Pam Bondi's office with the death penalty. His victims deaths didn't affect enough shareholders to warrant such rhetoric.

[–] FistingEnthusiast@lemmynsfw.com 22 points 2 weeks ago

Trump will want to pardon him

[–] hefejefe@lemm.ee 19 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

If Luigi gets the death penalty, so should this guy.

[–] Akasazh@feddit.nl 2 points 2 weeks ago

There's no evidence against Luigi

[–] mke_geek@lemm.ee 1 points 1 week ago

They should both be given life sentences, they both committed murder.

[–] miss_demeanour@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

[–] TachyonTele@piefed.social 15 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

Are those guys part of the military?
Or cops with toys?

[–] FistingEnthusiast@lemmynsfw.com 16 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Cops who want to kill people

[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 8 points 2 weeks ago

That doesn't narrow it down

[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 11 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I see the state of Minnesota and the words "special weapons" on that guy's patch, so yeah these are the guys that would actually have the real gear to respond to stuff like this. Your everyday beat cop isn't trained for it and shouldn't carry more than pepper spray.

[–] BassTurd@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago

ACAB.

With that out of the way, I'm ok having a specially trained and competent department or whatever to handle high pressure dangerous situations that they are equipped for literally and mentally (deescalation, negotiating, etc). Really, I think that could probably be a job for the national guard. It's unfortunate that the world has bad enough people that sometimes armed personnel are required, but it should be under trained, power hungry ~~gangsters~~ cops.

[–] Breezy@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago

So whats the chance this js just like luigi and they have the completely wrong guy by mistake or willfully.