The exact reason why it's bad for top secret communications is why individuals should use it or something like it. That is government auditability.
this post was submitted on 27 Mar 2025
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Privacy
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What kind of private communication can we talk about if you must have a valid phone number to use Signal?! Lol
Signal recently implemented "usernames" instead of phone numbers
But still, to use it, you need a phone number, which in many countries can only be purchased with a passport. That's the main rule. If privacy is really needed, personal identification should be excluded so that it's basically impossible to determine who owns the account.
Pretty sure you still need a phone number for an account, though - the usernames are just for sharing your contact with other people.
Most peoples' phone numbers are easily linked to their identity. Which means the government knows who's using Signal.
Usernames are definitely an improvement, but this is a fundamental limitation in Signal's design.
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Privacy != anonymous
No, but it's easy enough to be both. There's a pile of IM packages out there that manage it.
Metadata is valuable info, look at what a pen register nets law enforcement and why it's the first step in an investigation. The idea that a messaging app that's supposed to be used for political action but the chain of association is visible and verified is absolutely suspect.
You say "easy enough" but there are some serious tradeoffs when removing phone numbers from the equation. My mom can use Signal without my help but she wouldn't be able to use SimpleX.
Signal is a fantastic middle ground messaging app that is secure enough for me to use and easy enough for my mom to use.
I also have SimpleX but I have exactly 1 contact there...
Wherever Signal is mentioned, I shall mention SimpleX-Chat.
Zero user ID needed to use. No phone numbers and no username.
SimpleX-Chat!!!
Out of band key exchange is great -as long as people can physically meet and exchange QR codes. In reality, they are often sent via less secure means. As always, the humans are the weakest security link.
Fair point, it always feels dirty to send invite-link through WhatsApp, the dominant messenger in EU.
How would one go to solve the invite problem? How does Signal handle this?
Phone number and trust-on-first-use for most people, with out-of-band fingerprint verification for the paranoid. It really depends on the threat model and the security practices/awareness of your colleagues, but a link shared on some social media or lower-security chat network is more vulnerable to a man-in-the-middle attack than a phone number for your average Joe. There are a lot of ways a person could get a manipulated invite link.
Finally someone who understands! Haven't found anything better. Just missing the bridging bit, though that comprises the privacy/security and overall personal opinion why I started using SimpleX.
UI-wise it isn't there yet, but actively being developed so. I miss posting photos (combined) with a comment, now they are all sent separately.
Anyhow if you are looking for privacy go for SimpleX!
SimpleX is kinda good, but also we have briar, it does have ids, but more secure and 2P2, i don't know if simpleX was checked by third parties about security, briar was audited by cure53 for example.
I believe Briar can't do offline messaging without setting it up to use another app. That's the main reason my friend group shifted to SimpleX instead of Briar.
Briar... not familiar with, thx for sharing privacy goodies. Will check it out.
As for audits on SimpleX, there have been some. Not sure when the last one was tho, they prob have something on their site with a date.
Not sure I want to tell all my friends to get simplex with me.
SimpleX is what I use. I tried Signal in the past, but there was a noticeable delay in receiving messages and it caused problems when using it to communicate with family.
I have no problems with SimpleX so far. It works well and looks modern. A feature I like is that you can create a different user identity for each contact/ chat thread. It also supports socks5 proxy.
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Consider Briar.
Uses Tor. Works directly over Bluetooth/WiFi if the internet is censored or shut down. Decentralized, no accounts. No phone number required.
Of all the options available, I feel like this one is the best suited to current threats (oppressive governments with all-encompassing surveillance, and the willingness to destroy critical institutions and infrastructure).
The app is super barebones right now - feels like SMS - but it works. Main downside is that both participants have to be online at the same time (maybe group chats can work around this?), since there's no servers.
How does the Bluetooth work? If you're close enough to be in bluetooth range with someone aren't you close enough to just speak to them?
One use case could be mass protests/uprisings, where you have a lot of people congregated in a small area. An increasingly popular strategy among governments these days is to just shut down the entire internet in an agitated region. Bluetooth could keep information flowing between people with only mutual contacts, as they move in and out of range.
I'll have to give this a look. Since going to music festivals where I couldn't text my friends I've wanted a decentralized adhoc network message app. Using pgp all messages bounces through all devices within local device network range but you can only read the ones you have private keys for.
Ah yeah that's a pretty good use case
That feels like a huge downside!
Regarding the trick of an adversary gaining access by emailing or SMS'ing a QR code for adding another device...
Why does the new device not demand the PIN before being added?
It does, I tried it. Though, that may have been an addition since the attacks started.
Though, in that specific case - Russian agents conducting espionage via targeted individuals - it's very likely they surveil their targets long enough to catch their device PIN before they nab the phone and return it. In the end, there is very little recourse to defend against this type of Evil Maid attack. Signal is really better at protecting against mass surveillance, but for individuals directly targeted by state espionage? You would need serious opsec, using air-gapped computers kept in safes or guarded by humans 24x7 and other crazy stuff. They have rules about what can be physically done with devices containing top secret information for a good reason.
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