this post was submitted on 05 Oct 2025
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Seriously, what Israel is doing today is no different from what the Nazis did before and at the beginning of World War II, extreme nationalism, illegal expansion, annexation of foreign territory claiming it historically belongs to them, propaganda using the latest technology, terrorizing neighbors, military at the center of society.

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[–] frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone 32 points 6 days ago

Nazism is only outright banned in a few democratic countries. Even in ones where it is, like Germany, there are parties that skirt around it, like AfD. Who are getting uncomfortably popular, BTW.

It's very hard to actually ban an ideology even in heavily authoritarian countries. Doubly so when it's something that's really hard to define, like Fascism. And no, the Ur-fascism paper isn't even the final word on that subject.

[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 12 points 5 days ago

Nazism isn't even banned. Just look at all the fucking nazis in the governments of the world.

The only illegal group I am aware of, in the states anyway, is the KKK. And they still fuckin' exist too! 😬

[–] bitjunkie@lemmy.world 14 points 6 days ago (1 children)
[–] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 8 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (2 children)

Because up until recently Zionists weren't committing a genocide

IMO all religion that says you're entitled to shit should be banned from practicing publicly

And it would be easier and more fair to just ban all orginized religion

[–] OpenPassageways@lemmy.zip 1 points 5 days ago

I think there's an argument that they've been slowly committing one since 1948 or even prior, but things have accelerated recently and the world seems to actually be aware of it now.

[–] Nunar@lemmy.world 2 points 5 days ago

This is the reason.

[–] MrMakabar@slrpnk.net 9 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Zionism unlike the Nazis is not a threat to western democracy. They want a Jewish state in the Middle East, which is not part of the West. As long as the West is not involved, it usually does nothing or just some arms export bans on the countries and some sanctions on leaders. Currently that is happening in Sudan, which is about as bad as Gaza, but has really nothing to do with the West. There is nothing about it in the news at least in the West.

The real intressting part is more that the West is not sitting on the sitelines, but is somewhat aiding Israel. It obviously depends on the country and some do not do it at all. However even so, you see Western countries moving away from Israel. All but the US that is.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

The only thing that might be "surprising" for some in the support for Israel by Governments in the West (not to be confused with the general population, which just about everywhere seems to be far more anti-Genocide than the politicians) is how it massivelly contrasts which the last decades of talk of Freedom & Democracy from the politicians as well as the long running official posture towards the last bunch of Genocidal Ethno-Fascists - the NAZIs - which was mainly justified on their ethnic cleansing atrocities.

For those who all along were suspicious of the former words being nothing more than self-serving propaganda from some Western nations to excuse them de facto imposing their will on the people of other lands, usually to take their stuff (most commonly, Oil), and the latter being the useful parts of the truth whilst the inconvenient parts (like, for example, how Churchill himself was a Genocider or how the US profited from the War and only really entered it because of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor) were as much as possible not talked about, none of what's going on is surprising, except perhaps the pleasant surprise of the reactions of the actual population (not the politicians, especially not the governing ones) in several such countries, often going against the will of the power elites and the heavy propaganda being deployed to convince them otherwise (for example, for all the Genocide-support of the UK Government and the BBC, not that long ago there was a demonstration with half a million Britons against the Genocide - think about it: 1.5% of the British population came out in a demonstration which is entirelly for the good of somebody else, not themselves, so 100% a question of Principle).

The politicians in general are and always have been Sociopaths, but on this which is a massive issue of Moral and Principle (it's hard to come up with a stronger issue of Moral and Principle than the mass murder of children), most of the population are not Sociopaths nor are they following the Sociopaths, even in those countries were they are swamped by pro-Genocide Propaganda, some of which quite subtle and using techniques from Psychology to try and manipulate people's perceptions.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (4 children)

What Israel is doing nowadays IS different from what the NAZIs did: the Zionists aren't yet attacking the "superior" races.

The Humanitarianism in Western "Democracies" was always performative, the least democratic the nation the more performative it was, which I why generally you see the most support for Israel in the countries with the least democratic voting systems like the US and the UK (though present day Germany is a bit of an exception to this since they have a mixed voting system with a Proportional Vote component).

Way back in the beginning of NAZIsm the European and American elites loved the NAZIs and their ideas (for example, there is a picture of young British Princess Elizabeth, later Queen Elizabeth, being taught how to do a NAZI salute by her uncle, the then King) and it was only when the NAZIs attacked other Europeans that they turned against the NAZIs. This actually makes lots of sense as the NAZI ideas of the inherent superiority of some over others, especially along ethnic lines, were normalized in early XXth Century American and European society and very popular amongst the old-wealth elites (which naturally saw themselves as inherently superior to the rest, as that explained their higher status and priviledges in their societies - they deserved to be born into wealth because they were superior people)

We're looking back at the NAZIs from the end of a long track that included a period of propaganda heavilly against them which was necessary to inspire the population to support the war effort against them - in the period betwen then and now all the shit they did came out and none of it was reframed to seem justifiable (as is being done right now for the Zionist Genocide by many politicians and news media), quite the contrary: through some of the most powerful means to do so - dramatic films - we were made to experience and empathize with some of the pain of the victims of the Holocaust, mainly the Jewish (curiously, that of the Roma and Sindi was pretty much ignored) as well as repeatedly made to feel pride in the actions of the men and women that fought against the NAZIs in WWII and in the Resistance movements in places like France (just compare the portrayal of the Resistance FranΓ§aise to how Hamas is being portrayed)

I have little doubt that had the NAZIs just sticked to exterminating "lesser races" (like in the eyes of just about every Racist out there the Zionists are doing), the "pragmatism" (read, treating Principles as secondary to the Economic interests of the elites and themselves) of those in "Democratic" governments would have a lot of them justifying, reframing, denying and excusing the murderous actions of the NAZIs and claiming they didn't really do a Genocide, same as they do now for the murderous actions of the Zionists.

By the way, this also explains the massive difference in the reaction to the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the reaction to the Israeli Genocide in Gaza, even though the latter is thousands of times more murderous for civilians.

[–] princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

The Humanitarianism in Western "Democracies" was always performative, the least democratic the nation the more performative it was, which I why generally you see the most support for Israel in the countries with the least democratic voting systems like the US and the UK (though present day Germany is a bit of an exception to this since they have a mixed voting system with a Proportional Vote component).

I don't think that there's any causal link there. New Zealand still doesn't recognise the Palestinian state and has arguably the most democratic voting system. Australia has just recognised it (same as the UK) but still fund it, and we have a fairly democratic voting system.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

True, I'm a bit unsure on that front.

It's true that the least democratic (in terms of voting systems) of the so-called "Democratic" nations, such as the US, UK and even Canada are invariably amongst the ones whose governments most support Israel even against public opinion, but there are several examples of countries which have supposedly much more democratic voting systems and whose governments still strongly support Israel.

Clearly how close a country is to democratic "perfection" in terms of the allocation of parliamentary representatives matching the choice of the population through their vote, is far from the full picture in terms of explaining the posture of politicians in those countries with regards to this Genocide.

[–] princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Bestie, China supports Palestine and they are one of the least democratic nations. To say it has any correlation at all is ridiculous. But if you want me to go and compare the democracy index and get you a p-value I'll do it.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

It's more that I think there are multiple factors, one of which is how much politicians in power represent the will of the people.

For example, a nation being allied or not to the US also seems to infliuence their support or not for Israel whilst it commits a Genocide.

I would be surprised if that p-value is close to 1, but I would also be surprised if it's close to 0.

[–] princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Yes, because pissing off the US as an ally is generally an unwanted outcome and they are staunchly pro-Israel?

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Except that for nations inside the EU that's a lot less so than for small nations outside the EU, mainly because the main tools that the US can use to pressure nations are military - which if done against Europe would very likely elicit a reaction similar to that against the Russian invasion and destroy NATO and the entire tapestry of US alliances in the West - and trade (such as Tariffs) which the if the US tries to impose on a single EU nation will, due to EU treaties, treaty elicity a response from the entire EU, a market of 470 million people on the top 25% of wealth in World terms, so that would end up costing a lot more to the US than to said nation.

Whilst it's totally understandable for small and mid-sized nations which are US allies and outside trade blocks like the EU, to just go along with US foreign policy - even as extreme as supporting a Genocidal state mid-Genocide like this - because they have no other choice, even tiny EU nations do in fact have a choice because the US would have to go against the whole of the EU to significantly hit those nations.

So whilst the likes of New Zeeland pretty much have no other options than to go along with the US on this (at the very least to just shut up and act as if nothing is happenning), the likes of The Netherlands definitelly have other options and yet their politicians have been dragging their feet on stopping support for Israel.

This is probably why all nations which are allies of the US and were almost from the start overtly against Israel and their Genocide are in the EU (such as Spain and the Republic Of Ireland).

All this to say that no one single factor decides it, IMHO.

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[–] Litebit@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago

looking at russia, you can see nazis everywhere. Even the putin's Wagner terror group is based on nazism ideologies.

[–] Litebit@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago

Even ruscism ideology is not banned.

[–] LittleBorat3@lemmy.world 4 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

How do you even define that? Why is pro Russianism not banned?

What should they do after you have been found guilty of Zionism?

PS Nazism ist not banned, it's alive and well.

[–] Litebit@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)
[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 3 points 6 days ago

Because the zionists didn't do the holocaust.

[–] Grizzlyboy@lemmy.zip 1 points 5 days ago

Are you writing about Russia?

[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

The Zionists are in charge of CIA, and CIA is in charge of every democracy. Democracies not sufficiently supportive of NATO/Israel are rogue authoritarian regimes with rigged elections, that need more CIA NGOs, and media takeover, there to help.

I am not sure how correct you are but you are probably more correct than a lot of responses.

[–] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Zionism was originally an idealistic thought and evolved into something unrecognisable today. It was supported by most people across the world before. Zionism is inspired by nationalism, as was Nazism. If we bring your logic to its ultimate conclusion, then it goes to the circular questioning as to why is nationalism not been banned, despite causing so much harm and atrocity? Why is African nationalism not banned? Or Indian nationalism? Or Ukrainian nationalism? Even the history of nationalism has started with the best intentions. As had happened with most ideologies, however, they don't end well. I think even the the mildest form of nationalism will eventually end up extreme. Nationalism is making a pact with the devil and expecting the due will never come. That is what happened on German nationalism leading to Nazism, and Israeli nationalism leading to Zionism. And soon, American nationalism leading to MAGA nationalism.

[–] kreskin@lemmy.world 2 points 5 days ago

No actually it had always been considered a pretty dangerous far right idea, right up until the state of Israel was founded and then anti zionists became the fringe.

[–] sunflowercowboy@feddit.org 1 points 6 days ago

Zionism =/= Israel

Blame the culprit. They're just morally holding the world by the balls, if most western countries are christian predominantly. They bend the knee to their great spiritual grandpapa because they're run by scared old men who cling to one last fantasy. For they have abandoned all other, even humanity and kindness.

Zionist beliefs are not great in my opinion and I take a lot of issues with it, but it is the action that makes it transcend boundaries.

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